Charas-Project

Off-Topic => All of all! => Topic started by: Grandy on February 12, 2006, 12:01:41 AM

Title: Just something that has been bothering me for a while.
Post by: Grandy on February 12, 2006, 12:01:41 AM
 Does anyone here other than Almeidaboo knows about Alberto Santos Dumont?
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Post by: Genjo on February 12, 2006, 12:21:19 AM
uhh sure we do... Who was that again?
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Post by: Grandy on February 12, 2006, 12:46:03 AM
 Some crazy brazilian dude who is said, invented the airplane* but for some reason G. W. Bush approved a law that doesn't allows U.S. schools to talk about him, crazy, huh?


 *If you look carefully, I'm almost sure the Super Wright bros. where the first ones to make an plane that didn't exactly "fly", since it was "actionated" by an ballista-like giant plane-thrower that made a plane "fly". (for like 13 seconds and then crashed, mind ya) but Dumont made the first one that flew without external help and actually landed.
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Post by: Meiscool-2 on February 12, 2006, 12:50:08 AM
To be honest, I really couldn't care less who made the damn things, as long as they work. If this guy did in fact make them, he's long gone by now, so it would be worthless to try and change the maker.

Aside from that, there are tons of less-then-18-years-old kids out there that have invented really great crap, but because of their age, companies won't buy the idea/product, and thus, when 2 years pass by and a 30-year-old dude makes the same thing, he gets remembered as the original inventer. Sometimes, **** happens.
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Post by: Grandy on February 12, 2006, 01:24:01 AM
 
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so it would be worthless to try and change the maker.


 Sorry to say, but there's a reason for me to be posting this. The airplane is one of the greatest inventions made, it makes us FLY for the sake of and usaken person, Dumont didn't do it in his first try, I don't even know how many times did he fell from an unsucsessful try, where he lived he was considered a joke. So, lets say you make an invention, something great, like an device that cures cancer, you test it in yourself, many times, and many times it fails, giving you pain, and another deception, but yet you keep trying, when finnally, you can make it! Now, another medic who was researching in the same area of you, made an worse machine, that failed after some seconds, and crashed a lot, but since he had more rich and powerful friends than you, all the credits go to him.
 Even knowing that Dumont invented plane, Bush prefers to ban him from the classrooms, why I ask? U.S. is the biggest potency there is right now, there are plenty of famous inventors from there, but apparently that isn't good enought, still has to cast a shadow over the other inventors from another countries. Why? My only guess is: because it makes the country look greater, more than it is right now, there was a word for that, oh I remembered, brainwash.

 Now, don't go thinking I hate the Wright brothers and you shall all worship R.S.Dumont, They're equal in my Inventorofairplane-o-meter.
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Post by: Meiscool-2 on February 12, 2006, 01:30:34 AM
If I didn't know better, I would say you're being bias toward the Wright Brothers because they came from the US, and being all for Dumont because he's from Brazil, and judging from your location in your profile, you like Brazil.

The guy is dead. If I made the cure for cancer, died, and then they gave me the credit over some rich guy, I wouldn't give a damn.
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Post by: Genjo on February 12, 2006, 01:44:27 AM
well i say that the wright ****ing bros should **** themselves if they did that sons of a biches stealing a idea and GWB is just as bad not letting Us pple learn about this dude I could give less a **** cause Im from the north lol.  Im so telling me teach
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Post by: Grandy on February 12, 2006, 01:50:27 AM
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I wouldn't give a damn

 But you can believe I would, oh, wait, I wouldn't, I wouldn't even know who you where. But then, I bet you have friends, and I think THEY would care.

 And yes, in this subject, I'm all Dumont, because he is from Brasil, and because I'm tyred of seeing U.S. bragging about the wright brothers. And if I didn't know better, I'd say that you doesn't give a damn for what I'm talking about, even so you lose time going here an replying to it, but thats crazy, I consider you too smart to lose time in a subject about a guy who died, after all, dead people mean nothing to no one, right?

 In an editing matter:

 
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well i say that the wright ******* bros should **** themselves if they did that sons of a biches stealing a idea and GWB is just as bad not letting Us pple learn about this dude I could give less a **** cause Im from the north lol. Im so telling me teach


 ....what?
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Post by: Meiscool-2 on February 12, 2006, 01:53:52 AM
What I'm saying here is history is unimportant. The adverage person doesn't think: "Thankyou Wilber and Orvil!" Everytime they get on a plane. Even so, when learning about the wright brothers, they stated that they modeled their creation around a French man named Ludwic or something like that. Meaning, they weren't the first ones to make the plan, just flew it for the longest.
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Post by: Genjo on February 12, 2006, 01:56:42 AM
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Originally posted by Grandy
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I wouldn't give a damn

 But you can believe I would, oh, wait, I wouldn't, I wouldn't even know who you where. But then, I bet you have friends, and I think THEY would care.

 And yes, in this subject, I'm all Dumont, because he is from Brasil, and because I'm tyred of seeing U.S. bragging about the wright brothers. And if I didn't know better, I'd say that you doesn't give a damn for what I'm talking about, even so you lose time going here an replying to it, but thats crazy, I consider you too smart to lose time in a subject about a guy who died, after all, dead people mean nothing to no one, right?

 In an editing matter:

 
quote:
well i say that the wright ******* bros should **** themselves if they did that sons of a biches stealing a idea and GWB is just as bad not letting Us pple learn about this dude I could give less a **** cause Im from the north lol. Im so telling me teach


 ....what?




well actualy I do care because george bush is a bitch but still like what can you do?  Plus politics is a hard thing.  In canada we have a Sponsorship scandal the goverment had and now were short 44.5 mil$  like wtf!
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Post by: Grandy on February 12, 2006, 02:03:05 AM
 
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What I'm saying here is history is unimportant


 Eh? You heard that? It's me falling from my chair laughing. Because, seriously, history not being important is the most stupid thing I ever heard. And I'm pretty sure I don't have to explain you why.

 
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well actualy I do care because george bush is a ***** but still like what can you do? Plus politics is a hard thing. In canada we have a Sponsorship scandal the goverment had and now were short 44.5 mil$ like wtf!


 ....what?
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Post by: Genjo on February 12, 2006, 02:05:06 AM
oh the canadian goverment pretty much 45 million dollars from our taxes and spent it on themselves.  The only thing is they only paid us back .5 million dollars so now we are short 4.5 million because they felt like playing bad guy biches!!
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Post by: Grandy on February 12, 2006, 02:08:10 AM
 
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oh the canadian goverment pretty much 45 million dollars from our taxes and spent it on themselves. The only thing is they only paid us back .5 million dollars so now we are short 4.5 million because they felt like playing bad guy biches!!


 ....what?

 Seriously, I can't see any connection with how the topic started.
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Post by: Genjo on February 12, 2006, 02:10:09 AM
oh yeah you started talkin about how bush was not alowing thats stuff to be taught in school then I posted about then put up another rip off that goverments make!
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Post by: Meiscool-2 on February 12, 2006, 02:24:00 AM
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Originally posted by Grandy
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What I'm saying here is history is unimportant


 Eh? You heard that? It's me falling from my chair laughing. Because, seriously, history not being important is the most stupid thing I ever heard. And I'm pretty sure I don't have to explain you why.



Alright, I should've specified. History is unimportant to me. Knowing how things happened is nice, but I feel that it's unneeded. The same with knowing water is H2O. It's a common fact, just like most of history, but other then knowing it, you really can't do anything with it.
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Post by: Grandy on February 12, 2006, 02:38:14 AM
Au contre [/trying to sound french] knowing water is like that helps a lot when you're working as a chemist.
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Post by: Meiscool-2 on February 12, 2006, 02:48:34 AM
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Originally posted by Grandy
Au contre [/trying to sound french] knowing water is like that helps a lot when you're working as a chemist.


Which will aid my furture as an Architect how?
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Post by: Grandy on February 12, 2006, 02:51:10 AM
Meh, ban the mathematic from schools, since it won't help your friend, who will become an modern artist. Oh, but you are an architect, and must know mathematic! Well, screw you, we're caring about your friend.
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Post by: Meiscool-2 on February 12, 2006, 03:02:50 AM
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Originally posted by Grandy
Meh, ban the mathematic from schools, since it won't help your friend, who will become an modern artist. Oh, but you are an architect, and must know mathematic! Well, screw you, we're caring about your friend.


Though it was hard to figure out, I'm taking it that that means something pertaining to the fact that I (being Dumont) am being screwed over by my rich friend (being America)?

If there are people that choose not to become an enginer or architect, then knowing advanced geometry won't aid them much in life, just like knowing the original maker of the airplane won't help someone unless they are going to presue a job that requires unage of historic events.
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Post by: Razor on February 12, 2006, 04:45:07 AM
Actually I think Almeidaboo said that in an attempt to point out the idealism of "This subject does not help one particular person, so we should remove it from the education" thing.

Regardless, I also find history useless. Luckily, they do not teach it as a class in my school. Sure, it's important to remember Hitler existed, so we don't ACCIDENTLY repeat history and kill all the Jews again.
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Post by: MrMister on February 12, 2006, 07:29:00 AM
Flying in a plane isn't that magical.

The magical part about flying is the wind in your hair and the weightlessness.. THAT'S what cavemen dreamed of when they stared at the sky. The airplane isn't that great an invention :/

Good inventions:
unicycle
refridgerator
baritone guitar
mp3 players that aren't iPods

Bad inventions:
This thread
IHOP
Cher's headdresses
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Post by: Drace on February 12, 2006, 08:09:03 AM
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Originally posted by Meiscool
If I made the cure for cancer, died, and then they gave me the credit over some rich guy, I wouldn't give a damn.


If it was me, I'll make a cure for dead while dead so I can come back and kill the guy. I want the damn Nobel-Prize then.

Also, another good invention is the dildo. That way, sad and lonely and ugly old hags aren't going to have sex with the poor gigolo.
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Post by: Moosetroop11 on February 12, 2006, 11:57:48 AM
I think the point of the topic was that Bush banned the information, rather than the information itself. Who has the right to do something like that?
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Post by: Grandy on February 12, 2006, 12:34:38 PM
 
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I think the point of the topic was that Bush banned the information, rather than the information itself. Who has the right to do something like that?


 Thank you, you summed everything I wanted to say but couldn't find the words to.
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Post by: WingZero on February 12, 2006, 02:49:28 PM
I've been doing a bit bit of research the Wright Bros. frst flight was in 1903 at Kitty Hawk, USA  and Dumont made his flight in 1908 and made the  first ultralight airplane but he din't made the frist airplane.

some more info of  Dumont (http://invention.psychology.msstate.edu/inventors/i/Santos-Dumont/Santos-Dumont.html)
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Post by: carmen on February 12, 2006, 02:55:41 PM
well i can see what you mean. But then again you can't say "OMG LEIK BUSH IS THE EVILZOR!"

...I'm well aware how how government works. Bush isn't a king. HE doesn't sit up on a throne making stuff up. It's a process of passing things on, approving them. We're a democracy.

It may not have even been bush's idea to do it. So before you go blaming bush, talk to him and ask him if he did it. That's the only way you can be sure. So I know alota people don't like bush, Hell, even I'm not too fond of him. But I don't bash him.

Because I don't exactly know whats going on behind the scenes, I don't knwo how hard it would be to be in that position. And until I do, I can't bad mouth him.

Just some food for thought.

And as to the Whole "WHO DID IT FIRST"
Well America has changed. We were built on change.
But now we don't like change. We like things to remain the same.

They figure, why get all technical and rearrange our history and our quater over a technicality. Brazil can start teaching it, london can too. We don't mind.
Just it's an overhaul that we don't feel like making. We're not stopping the teaching, we're just too lazy to do it.

it's a 'If somthings not broke, why fix it' mentallity

EDIT:
I just saw wing zeros post. lmao

...And I just wrote that WHOLE BIG THING. yeesh
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Post by: Grandy on February 12, 2006, 03:09:40 PM
 
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Many of their machines, including the 1905 model, could have taken off under their own power

 COULD is the word, it didn't.

 
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However, the Wrights didn't care to have their machine damaged in takeoff from soft fields, and so employed an efficient, reliable, and elegant means of launching their craft
 

 XD Sorry, but I can agree it could be efficient, but not reliable and/or elegant.

 
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Which plane do YOU think is flying?


 Gee, sorry, none of the movies works for me.

 
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But celebrate him for what he did, not for what you WISH he did. It is very tiresome to see people champion their favorite cause at the expense of the Wrights.


 I could throw that back at the face of who wrote that.

 That is exactly what I'm talking about, when I'm all "Go Dumont go!" they're all "We did it and our was better." I admit I was not imparcial in what I wrote, but that text isn't either.
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Post by: Osmose on February 12, 2006, 03:11:21 PM
In the American system of government, a Bill has to be passed through TWO voting houses before it even reaches the president. Therefore, if this bill was passed banning the teaching of some brazillian guy, then Bush may have passed it, but it doesn't mean he's the one who created it. It also means that a majority in both the Senate and the House of Representatives agreed with it.

That's not taking into account that this little provision might have been attached to a much greater bill. Capitol Hill works in very shifty ways. Several little laws like banning something to teach or giving money to some organization are usually stuck on to a more important bill that has nothing to do with it, such as drilling for oil somewhere or tax cuts. The reality of the situation is that this banning teaching about the guy was probably shoved into a big bill that was too important to not pass, and most of the votes and the president's approval were based on a totally different subject.

So sorry, your attempt to bash Bush failed.
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Post by: charaman on February 12, 2006, 03:16:58 PM
**** laws. Schools I went to have always mentioned it.
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Post by: Grandy on February 12, 2006, 03:17:57 PM
 I've read in a realiable magazine it was his idea. Besides, when I say "Bush" please read "all those damn politicians who do everything and blame him". Better now?
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Post by: WingZero on February 12, 2006, 03:39:42 PM
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Originally posted by Grandy
Many of their machines, including the 1905 model, could have taken off under their own power
 
COULD is the word, it didn't.


yes the 1905 but the 1903 din't need any optional power the optional power that in that time was the catapult was need to have more speed but it din't needed to to just fly.
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Post by: Desimodontidae on February 12, 2006, 03:47:48 PM
Most things in history are ambiguous, anyways. Im sure somewhere someone else had already made a flying machine, and it was a hit of the week, but never caught on. Perhaps this happened several times, but not historically recorded, we'll never know. What gets remembered is only what we want remembered, and only the way we want it to be remembered. Ever think that maybe 1000 years ago there was a huge war where millions died, but everyone vowed not to talk about it, and kept it completly exponged from history?

Its possible...
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Post by: Grandy on February 12, 2006, 11:17:47 PM
 1, 2, 3, 3....

 Ya, now even though I agree, Almeida, the Amazonia has nothign to do with this.
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Post by: MrMister on February 12, 2006, 11:24:16 PM
What the ****?
Can you honestly think killing Bush would solve anything?
You want Dick Cheney to be the fucking president?

And didn't DaVinci invent the flying machine?
Pilâtre de Rozier was the first to fly a balloon.
And Germany had flown before..
Alberto Santos-Dumont was just the first to fly without crashing. He did wear a funny hat though.
Aviation may go back to China in the 13th century.. they always invent stuff first.
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Post by: Almeidaboo on February 12, 2006, 11:24:43 PM
Where did you read that Grandy? My g/f wants to see it...

Yeah, I know Amazon has nothing to do with the matter, but it´s another example of the things they try to steal from us.
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Post by: MrMister on February 12, 2006, 11:26:14 PM
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Originally posted by Almeidaboo
another example of the things they try to steal from us.

WTF does Brazil have?!
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Post by: Grandy on February 13, 2006, 12:03:19 AM
Far more lands than U.S., oil enough for being auto-sustentable (but we aren't and don't ask me why, my bet's go because we are a dumb country), a great ammount of the Amazonic forest, which, if I well remember, some teacher in U.S. where actually teaching that amazon wasn't ours, but thei'rs, we also have a great ammount of different trees and animals, it actually comes in a pack with the forest, so, yeah. Also, a great ammount of clean water, it may not look much to have water, but there are already some ships from U.S., ammount of another countries, coming here and taking it.

 Almeida: In an old Superinteressante if I well remember.
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Post by: Almeidaboo on February 13, 2006, 01:01:39 AM
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Originally posted by Grandy
Far more lands than U.S., oil enough for being auto-sustentable (but we aren't and don't ask me why, my bet's go because we are a dumb country), a great ammount of the Amazonic forest, which, if I well remember, some teacher in U.S. where actually teaching that amazon wasn't ours, but thei'rs, we also have a great ammount of different trees and animals, it actually comes in a pack with the forest, so, yeah. Also, a great ammount of clean water, it may not look much to have water, but there are already some ships from U.S., ammount of another countries, coming here and taking it.

 Almeida: In an old Superinteressante if I well remember.


Add to that: our music isn´t done with 2 acords, our language is deep and complex enough to permit something called "poetry", our culture is  far too broad for anyother country understand it properly, arms-wide-open country and, just for the record, not a belicist country, in pther words, a more human nation.

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We're a democracy.


Do you really belive that?
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Post by: Snake Eater on February 13, 2006, 04:07:24 AM
In response to your orginal question, No.
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Post by: Razor on February 13, 2006, 06:52:46 AM
Great idea, divide the page by zero why don't cha.
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Post by: ZeroKirbyX on February 13, 2006, 07:08:36 AM
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Originally posted by Desimodontidae
Most things in history are ambiguous, anyways. Im sure somewhere someone else had already made a flying machine, and it was a hit of the week, but never caught on. Perhaps this happened several times, but not historically recorded, we'll never know.


Yeah. The Wright brothers aren't acredited for being the first men to fly, just the first to do so in an airplane. If I remember correctly, William Cody (Buffalo Bill) had a large flight kite strong enough for two men and who knows how many times through history people have gotten the idea "Lets fill a bed sheet with air!".
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Post by: carmen on February 13, 2006, 08:54:38 AM
try lving here for half your life. Digging into politics and issues. not just hearing/reading about them. I Can't say how brasil is. Even if I visited. So in my opinion, you can't really tell me what my country is. Because of the simple fact you're information is incomplete. Just like mine about your country.

Do you see me going "Brasil sucks!"

No. And you never will until I experience brasil and it's inner workings.
It's assuming things that get ppl in trouble.

So everytime I see a non us resident going "BUSH IS THE GAYZOR"
I automatically assume they don't know what they're talking about.

It's cool you guys watch the news and read whats going on. Thats good. But until you sit there at the capitol next to all of those guys...Don't talk to me.

So eager to insult things we don't understand. Just because it doesn't throw stones back, doesn't make it an abandoned window.
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Post by: Grandy on February 13, 2006, 03:08:13 PM
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Originally posted by Snake Eater
In response to your orginal question, No.


 Thanks, it was just to make sure.

 
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Do you see me going "Brasil sucks!"


 No, and thats why I'm not mad with you. See, I'm mad with the people who DO that, like Mr.Mr. "What the **** does Brasil have?".
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Post by: Almeidaboo on February 13, 2006, 03:10:56 PM
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Originally posted by carmen
try lving here for half your life. Digging into politics and issues. not just hearing/reading about them. I Can't say how brasil is. Even if I visited. So in my opinion, you can't really tell me what my country is. Because of the simple fact you're information is incomplete. Just like mine about your country.

Do you see me going "Brasil sucks!"

No. And you never will until I experience brasil and it's inner workings.
It's assuming things that get ppl in trouble.

So everytime I see a non us resident going "BUSH IS THE GAYZOR"
I automatically assume they don't know what they're talking about.

It's cool you guys watch the news and read whats going on. Thats good. But until you sit there at the capitol next to all of those guys...Don't talk to me.

So eager to insult things we don't understand. Just because it doesn't throw stones back, doesn't make it an abandoned window.


Marcelo Wuo Lopes, Rafael Rietmann, my "relatives" from USA. They know what they´re talking about, they can reproduce what I said. That´s why.

Plus, you´ll never see me trying to teach you how to draw or to play the guitar, cause that I really don´t know. I´m not really into speaking without knowing what I´m talking about.

I´ve been to the States, I have many worderful things to say about the country. Organization, development, welcoming and helpful citizens. No trash on the ground, no beggars, wonderful minibar service in the hotels.

But Bush, Bush is the "GAYZOR".
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Post by: charaman on February 13, 2006, 03:12:29 PM
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Originally posted by Desimodontidae
Most things in history are ambiguous, anyways. Im sure somewhere someone else had already made a flying machine, and it was a hit of the week, but never caught on. Perhaps this happened several times, but not historically recorded, we'll never know. What gets remembered is only what we want remembered, and only the way we want it to be remembered. Ever think that maybe 1000 years ago there was a huge war where millions died, but everyone vowed not to talk about it, and kept it completly exponged from history?

Its possible...


There are hindu texts which vividly describe their flying saucer-like aircrafts.

EDIT: http://www.crystalinks.com/indiavimanas.html
Title: what you say?
Post by: lonewolf on February 13, 2006, 04:55:56 PM
http://www.sikorskyarchives.com/timeline.html


you need to look at this
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Post by: Drace on February 13, 2006, 08:08:07 PM
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Originally posted by Grandy
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Originally posted by Snake Eater
In response to your orginal question, No.


 Thanks, it was just to make sure.

 
quote:

Do you see me going "Brasil sucks!"


 No, and thats why I'm not mad with you. See, I'm mad with the people who DO that, like Mr.Mr. "What the **** does Brasil have?".


Gran, for the last bloody time. IGNORE Mr.Mr.. Most do that and he never pisses us off cause we know how he is. Plus, he's Canadian so boohah! Brasil > Canada.