The Girl Effect

[drenrin2120]

That's pretty much what I was trying to say. That our beliefs aren't universal and to other culture, what we consider as plain wrong, they see as righteous. It doesn't mean it's right, as valiere pointed out quite plainly. It all goes back to beliefs.

Would it be fair to call "human rights" its own religion? If you catch my meaning. 'Cuz personally, I'm all for an "Atheistic Humanist" look at the world. And god I don't know if that actually exists and if its completely contrary to what I'm meaning, but it definitely sounds pompous as ****.

Also, didn't read that wall back thar.

[SaiKar]

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

One of the best sentences in the English language, and seems fitting enough right now.

[Cerebus]

I'm pretty sure most American don't believe in the "all men are created equal" part anymore. Or, well, it's probably more than just Americans. Maybe even the whole sentence, actually.

[drenrin2120]

Taking the term "creator" in a wide liberal view, yes, I can curr.

@cerb: That's been true for a lot of people in America and around the world, for a looooong time.

@lucas: Yes, and there were no women's rights either and a lot of other problems. Hence, amendments. Things change, the fathers of the constitution knew this and did the best they could to make a document that worked far into the future. Back then, it was as easy as saying, "well, negroes ain't human." and the moral problem of "all men created equal" is easily sidestepped. But as philosophies change and abolitionists became more bold, the problem came to civil war. There were people who disagreed with slavery even back then.

[Valiere]

Wasn't slavery still okay when that thing was written? Just wondering.

I looked it up...slavery ended in the north the same year that the constitution was written. It wouldn't be abolished in the south until way later though.

FUN FACT: The constitution was written exactly 200 years before I was born!

[Archem]

Wasn't slavery still okay when that thing was written? Just wondering.

Fun fact: Originally, slavery was to be abolished. However, certain southern states threatened to not sign off on the declaration unless slavery was legal. It wasn't a majority, it was because the vote had to be unanimous.

[SaiKar]

Yeah, they wanted to settle that issue then, but they decided it would be better to stay united for the purpose of winning the war for independence and THEN tackle issues like that. Not a terrible move, really, though it did come to bite them pretty hard during the civil war. Well, George Washington and Abraham Lincoln are almost always ranked the 1st and 2nd best presidents of this country for a reason.

[Zerlina]

Again, we're not necessarily imposing our beliefs on other people. If men in certain countries believe women should be treated a certain way then it's the men who are imposing their beliefs on those women. If the women want a fair chance, good health, and economic power, then all we're doing is letting them live out their own desires.

Also, it's sort of up in the air over whether slavery has really been abolished...if we take a Marxist view of things, slavery and colonization still exists, it's just more implicit. Just look at sweatshops. In exchange for their hard labour we pay people barely enough to live, it's comparable to putting people up on land, giving them minimal food, and making them work for free.

[Drakiyth]

I was waiting for someone to say this so I could pounce on them.

So thanks.

It's all a matter of if you believe in "unalienable rights" or not. In a lot of cases, unalienable rights are incompatible with culture, especially when religion's involved. If you believe human beings have the right to pursue an education and earn a livelihood, this right is absent for women in parts of the Middle East -- for cultural reasons. If you believe human beings have the right to have intact body parts and to urinate or have sex without being in complete agony, then this right is incompatible with the cultural practice of female genital mutilation.

If you ask me, yes, human rights trump culture any day. I'll tolerate culture if it involves getting a day off from school and maybe a special holiday with music and brownies. But when it involves the invisible man in the sky telling you to snip off a 12-year-old's clitoris, well, I gotta draw that line.

Amazing what the brainwashed will do for their fake gods. If you think vaginal mutilation is bad, check out the cardinals and crusade era. Check out with the christian and catholic ethos did to women and pretty much everybody else.  Some terrible **** comes from culture/religion. It's honestly stupidity in the most solid form imaginable.

[Zerlina]

It's honestly stupidity in the most solid form imaginable.

I think that's a little too simplistic...yes religion has led to a lot of bad things, but also a lot of good things. In either case, it's not usually religion to blame either way, but human nature either extending to the good or extending to the bad.

[Cerebus]

I think religion were... excuse me for my beliefs, but "created" for good purposes. But since it's humans who "manage" it, well, it becomes this way. Just like communism! It's based on good principles and all, but since it's also managed by humans, it's how it is.

Religions don't make people stupid. It's people who make religions stupid.
Yes.

[Zerlina]

Religions don't make people stupid. It's people who make religions stupid.
Yes.

I agree.