The RIAA, DRM, And the ethics/morality of downloading music.

[ZeroKirbyX]

I've downloaded 23 albums in the last week. I have 5 downloading right now.

You tell me what side I'm on.

[Dragonium]

People who don't like downloading:
 - Record companies who want MOAR PROFITZ.
 - The RIAA.
 - Lars Ulrich, who is a Danish money troll.

I download occasionally, but if I like the band and want to own the genuine release, I'll buy the CD. I like Opeth. I bought their last album because I wanted to have it in my hands. I even bought the Limited Edition.

Bands who dislike downloading for monetary reasons are deluded, frankly. Bigger bands sell thousands of albums, filesharing does not significantly hurt their profits and probably makes it easier to get more music out. For smaller bands, it's good publicity, and they're not losing a huge portion of their income.

It's the less mainstream bands who are okay with it. John Haughm from Agalloch says the only negative thing about downloading in his view is that it's on a single track basis and the listener doesn't really get the flow or message of the complete album. If ever they have extra stuff or bonus tracks, they put it out on vinyl. Part of me wants vinyl to be the way forward.

It's always going to happen. Cracking down on it is probably just going to make people devise sneakier ways of filesharing.

[Dominicy]

I've downloaded 23 albums in the last week. I have 5 downloading right now.

You tell me what side I'm on.

I knew it!  Two or so years of undercover work finally seem worth it!!  You're coming with me.  This'll learn you to steal music.

[Cerebus]

I pirate like crazy and find little, if nothing, wrong with it.

Well, you know what they say.
"Do what you want cause a pirate is free; you are a pirate!"

From what I've heard, Record Companies make WAY more money than artists do. So we're actually making Record Companies lose profits. Aw... that's so sad! Artists can still make money from live shows. And I'm not sure, but I think they also make money from T-Shirts (with their band name) and such, BUT I could be wrong. Still stands for the shows anyway. And even though a lots of people download music, there are also a lots who will buy the CDs.

I download. Not so much, but I do. Sure, it's stealing. I'm so very sad for the Record Companies, yeah yeah. But if there's a CD I like, I will buy it.

[Desimodontidae]

Sometimes I download albums, but usually I just youtube songs I want to hear. I'll diownload something if I really like it and want to put it on my MP3 player. And in rare cases I will buy an album if I really want to support the artist, such as with Jason Becker's new album.

[drenrin2120]

I download plenty of songs, but like most of you, if I really like a band, I'll go out and pay for their CD and go to shows and whatnot. There are always more pressing moral issues than spreading music around via the internet.

I don't blame the Music Companies for not adapting and not wanting to. Really, I can understand their position. But they've got plenty of money to stay afloat and they will have this money for a long time. So **** 'em.

[DragonBlaze]

My argument is BS because why? You don't like it that companies file lawsuits against people who steal from them?

So not only do you break the law, you don't buy stuff from companies that go after people who break the law. How do you NOT see something wrong with this?

About the candy bar thing, think about it, do you really think Hershey's would be hurting if you stole one of their candy bars? No, the store wouldn't get hurt from it because its only 50 cents. But imagine half the people who ate hershey's candy bars stole them, then thats when the store and the Hershey's company would feel an affect. Granted you're not "litterally" taking anything when you download music, but people still did spend millions of dollars making the product. And when half the people who listen to the music have obtained it illegally, then the music industry WILL feel the affect.


Bottom line is this, music companies spend huge amounts of money and time making these products, so if we do download their content illegally, we are STEALING from them. If you do not care, that is your own problem, but don't blame your illegal actions on anyone else. There is a law, you break the law, thus it is you're own fault.

[Grandy]

About the candy bar thing, think about it, do you really think Hershey's would be hurting if you stole one of their candy bars? No, the store wouldn't get hurt from it because its only 50 cents. But imagine half the people who ate hershey's candy bars stole them, then thats when the store and the Hershey's company would feel an affect. Granted you're not "litterally" taking anything when you download music, but people still did spend millions of dollars making the product. And when half the people who listen to the music have obtained it illegally, then the music industry WILL feel the affect.

 You still doesn't quite get the idea. It wouldn't be like stealing a candy bar from a store, it'd be like looking at the candy bar, making a clone of the candy bar and then leaving with the clone, not the original candy bar, which would still be in the store and someone else can still buy, and the store won't lose any money over this.

[DragonBlaze]

Lol, and you still don't get the idea that people DO lose money when you download their content illegally for free, or rather when millions of people of download their product illegally thinking their actions won't affect anyone.

[X_marks_the_ed]

I could explain my thoughts on this, but I'd only be restating what a lot of you have said, except for one thing. Singers have talent.

Warning: Possibly me rambling on about something stupid. Avert your eyes.
Talent is bullshit. I'm not gonna pay for something you made just because you were born with the talent to make it. Being born able to sing (along with synthesizers and other bullshit) is not the same someone working physically (with their hands) for seven/eight hours a day, hoping to be thanked. All you're selling me is your voice, which, technically, anybody could do. You just got lucky to have a voice that's tolerable. That's why I don't pirate food, or lawn chairs, or Lucas' bike (anymore). That's because someone actually had to put that **** together with their bare hands. while artists make millions on three-word songs with absolutely no meaning.

[Drace]

Lol, and you still don't get the idea that people DO lose money when you download their content illegally for free, or rather when millions of people of download their product illegally thinking their actions won't affect anyone.

What Grandy means is the following:

A store buys a certain amount of CD's of an artist, in this example, Serj Tankian. Now Serj is a big name and a lot of people like his music. But of these people, a lot also do not have the money or do not wish to spend it on his CD.

The CD's in the store get bought by the people who are willing to buy it in the first place. Stores and record companies know this because it has been like this for ages.

Now let's say there are 100 CD's of Serj in the store. There are 250 fans of Serj. Now of these 250, 50 people are too poor to buy it and don't want to work just for that one CD. Also, 100 people do not wish to own a CD because they'd rather see it live or on TV.

The remaining 100 still buy it, thus still coming up to the expectations. The companies and stores are not losing money because the 100 people who are willing to buy it mostly still do. The 150 people who do not wish to spend money on it, do not. They wouldn't have bought it in the first place.

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PS: I know you are not stupid, but I wrote this very simple for everyone to understand.

[Grandy]

Lol, and you still don't get the idea that people DO lose money when you download their content illegally for free, or rather when millions of people of download their product illegally thinking their actions won't affect anyone.

No they don't.

[Roland_Deschain]

Ok, perfectly good example: At UMO, the college I go to, they KNOW a lot of people illegally download music. So, they have a ~LEGAL~ system set up so college students can download songs for free, with a minor tuition increase for everyone. Why can't music companies be like this? Make more limited editions that have awesome stuff for HARDCORE fans of the band, raise the price on those so they make about the same amount of money, and post a few, not all, but a few of the songs online to download.

Back to the borrowing CD's example: How is it that borrowing a CD to put some songs on my computer to listen to and NOT to sell is illegal? It seriously makes no goddamn sense to me.

[Dragonium]

No they don't.

They kind of do, though.

Imagine you're a baker. You are tasked to make a new cake - in fact, the best cake in the world. So, you slave away, night and day, for many months, perfecting your cake recipe. You go through a lot of ingredients getting it right, and since they're only the best, this costs you a lot of money, not to mention the cost of those long hours working hard. Finally, you get it right. It's fantastic. It's the most fabulous cake in the world. You begin baking cakes following the recipe. Finally, your cakes are ready to be put in cake shops.

At this point, someone (who in my imagination looks like a Spy from Team Fortress 2) comes into your bakery, buys a cake, then steals your recipe, and begins producing his own copies of the cake and handing them out to everyone*. Suddenly everyone has your cakes, and you have made virtually no money for all that hard work. A little tear runs down your cheek.

*Assume that in this analogy the Spy has some way of mass-producing cakes for zero cost to himself. It could happen.

Depending on the size of the band, the amount of money they stand to lose varies, but there is always some impact.

It's like littering. There is the mentality of "ehh, if I drop this sweet wrapper on the floor, it's not going to hurt the environment too much". And that's true. The problem is that everyone has that same mentality, and the problem stacks up until it's a real issue.

Ehh. I can't decide which viewpoint I'm coming from.

[Prpl_Mage]

But that's like techno and rap Ed.

Let's put it this way, some people make way too much money on their music and end up taking drugs and die.
And then on the other hand, we have the good bands who brings joy to the world for 10 years and then disappear into retirement.

But somewhere, I gotta agree with Ed, I wouldn't steal a bike(maybe Lucas' though) but just downloading one song like each 4 month instead of buying a CD (just to listen to that one song) can't affect that incredible much.
Bikes and stuff is expensive and it's matter(only the actual CD and the case is).

But yeah, if you cloned a candy bar from the store and went away, then someone else could buy it.
But what if the next person also clones it and so on?
If everyone clones the candy. It won't get bought, and then It'll go bad and no one will want it. And when no one wants it then the owner of the store won't get profit from the money he spent buying that box of candy bars.
But let's say each candy bar is 1$ and he buys 100 of them. That's 100$ total. he had to pay 20$for the box, 80$ profit.
But if 50% of the people walking into the store decides to clone it?
Then he will only make 50$. And as he paid 20$for the box, he only made a profit of 30$instead of 80$.

And another interesting thing, anyone had video tapes? You could record things from the TV on the tapes.
Wouldn't that be pirating as well? I mean, I record Matrix when it's played on TV and then I can insert the tape and play it again whenever I want instead of buying the movie or hire it. All video players had video recorders as standard right?

And Roland.
Your friend shared his music with you so you could get your own. That's the same thing as piracy.
Someone upload the music. You put it on your computer(download it). But you don't sell it. You just use it for yourself.

The downloading piracy is not about making money. It's about saving money for the people who don't want to pay for it or just can't reach the music they want.