Chain game ideas and discussion 2022-20??

[Prpl_Mage]

Gonna make two posts here to divide the information so we can add to it at a later time if more ideas pop up.
We just finished a chain game and it took some time but that was expected because of the situation right now. But I had some time to go through some of our old threads to see what interesting ideas and discussions we've had. Some of them are mute nowadays because we aren't as active nor as many so left some of them out.

Structure - How to build the project itself

Below follows some different ideas on how we approach the project, do we make chapters? Do we continue a story as we've done so far? Try something new? I've tried to categorize some of our ideas into shorter prompts that we can discuss here:

Everyone does a part: 1
Non linear story, either through the "campfire story" idea, or time traveling, or just "jump into a painting in M64 style".
Each part is standalone, there may be returning characters for different reasons but each part is it's own part but related to the overall story somehow. But in general everything earned in the chapter will be gone by the time you return to the "hub"


Everyone does a part: 2
Non linear story, either through the "campfire story" idea, or time traveling, or just "jump into a painting in M64 style".
The same party remains however, so you can take your hard earned rewards into the next chapter and maybe add some fun twists depending on which order you complete them.
However, no leveling up or balance will be completely off, all improvements can come from items, quest rewards, "power ups" for permanent stat boosts, skills, new map abilities etc. (more on that in the next post)


The open world
Similar to the one above.
But. instead of leaning heavily into story we make a main starting area and setup some characters. Then each person takes turns adding a new city hub and surrounding areas around it for their part or something.
Not really chapters because each part will be seamless into the other parts as some sort of "side story". It will be non-linear and the premise could just be a "gather the crystals" or "defeat the 4 great evils" kind of thing and one is in each of the areas we make.
Then add some sort of item or skill that can be used to get past map obstacles and reach new areas, that way we can add these obstacles into the other areas for secrets and such. We can add some silly mini games that repeats throughout each chapter etc or a crafting system that needs different materials from the different areas we add. And then we make some sort of final chapter or epilogue.


Classic but different endings
Like previous games we all make a chapter each, but then for the final chapter we all make our own ending to the game after a bugfixing round and add some end game content. So we have the chaingame process, but 4(?) different games each with thier own ending to it.


Continue the story: 1
Less of a chain game, someone makes the first part/write a beginning for it, and then everyone makes their own continuation of the story and we compile it as some sort of "parallel universe deal." Either in one single project (probably not unless we want to dedicate item slots, monsters slots, switches, variables etc). Or as a Zip with several games in it.


Continue the story: 2
Less of a chain game because even though it is set in the same world it is like "Everyone does a part: 1" in which the chapters aren't necessarily connected. We make one chapter at a time and play through the previous one of course, still linear in this case so we follow along with the central theme or conflict, but each chapter may present a different time or perspective on the story to get more world building done and end with some unresolved conflict or mystery that the next person can tackle.


The sequel/prequel run
Instead of a chaingame we make a short game/story set in one of the universes of our old chain games. So by the end of it we upload a bunch of games as a tribute to the projects we've worked on these past 10 years.


Keep it classic
We don't change a winning concept and continue with the same kind of structure as before. Discuss a genre, someone makes a part 1 and then each person does pretty much whatever they want for their chapter as long as it's connected somehow.

[Prpl_Mage]

Gameplay

Below are different ideas on how we can approach the game in a more mechanical sense. From systems to setups and other things.


Try a different tool?
We could attempt a different software, either a newer RPGmaker or something completely different to make a different kind of game. That way we could make something new, the downside is of course that we all need to acquire the software and learn how to use it for it to be good.


Build on a previous chapter/mini game
We've had some great chapters that have gone beyond normal RPG gameplay, most of them thanks to Momeka let's be honest. Instead of doing a classic RPG we could pick one of the systems we've designed for the previous games and make that into the core gameplay of the new one. We'll have to pick one or a few that can coexist and then learn the reins of them though.


Custom battle system
This is some more work, especially if we want it consisting only of pictures so it won't disrupt the map events. But it could be a fun way to spice things up and move away from the basic systems that we've kinda stretched to their limits already. However, someone needs to take charge here and the rest need to make sure that additions to the system doesn't break the existing structure. Lots of backups could be needed and troubleshooting before we even think about releasing it.


Metroidvania inspired
I'm terrible at these kinds of games to be honest but I like the design of them a lot. You progress through areas and get access to new abilities or items that let's you explore. Exploration is rewarded and the whole spatial awareness is increased as areas are reused further down the line when the player have all these new things which let's you get further, faster or... future...
We can even keep the rpg battles if we like.


Point and Click Adventure game inspired
Puzzle solving? Picking up and using items? Memorable characters? Crazy combination of items and unlikely uses of a blender? Adventure games are different in many ways from an RPG but there are some games out there that have managed to either make the premise work in games all round. Or at least made their combat more puzzle solving like.




Replace leveling with a class system
Each chapter can add some new classes to keep things fresh, basic classes, little advancement within the class itself, but the classes do different things. We can keep things balanced and challenging without throwing huge numbers at the players.


Replace leveling with power ups
Games don't need levels and stats to be good. Instead of having experience points and stat increases that no one really cares about as long as you "got stronger" we can replace that with earned power ups. That way we can control the game more, just like in Heart of Gold some stats were static and the only way to increase them was achieving things, like finding spirits. Likewise in Metroid games or whatever the power ups can be movement related or just capacity or a completely new skill.


Replace leveling with "trees"
Leveling up only changes HP and MP gain and not any other stats. Instead you earn points and invest those points in unlocking new things from the save menu with a character specific upgrade tree... Yeah probably not a good idea for a chain game.

[Fisherson]

So I'll just state it flat out: I would love to use a new type of software but I will NEVER work on a Metroidvania style game. I love the idea of watching it but I wouldn't play and thus play test it. I also loathe platformers outside of like mini games and you all know my mini game using platforming from Wrath of Gaia? That was awful even by my bad standards I think we can all agree XD

Open World intrigues me but I don't think it would be able to convey a good story without some jiggery pokery or a hell of engine. Unless we go parody route: it's breath of the wild/skyrim but we make fun of open world games every other step.

I really love the idea of replacing leveling even if we stay in RPG Make 2k3. I played a game recently based on a web original and one of my favorite things it is it had no leveling. Every battle was based around strategy, pre-planning and unlocking and powering up skills instead of stats. Then again it also had a 'click to hit' timing based system I haven't seen executed well in RPG Maker 2003...Still would love to try it.

Speaking of pet peeves I would like to have it in the next game so that we don't all have the typical "FF United Party Stands before the big bad" scene.  I know it's tried and true but honestly I would like to try stepping back from it for a bit.

[Momeka]

Try a different tool?

Dunno, I'm a bit split on this. Don't think I would like to do another rpg maker engine if we are gonna switch. To me that would feel kinda pointless, we all already know 2k3, they are all kinda the same-ish, the newer version have higher resolution on the art making it more challenging to do custom stuff, and someone is going to install a plug in and it's just gonna cause headaches down the line.
But there are some free engines out there:

Unity - I'm the least tempted to use this since I spend 8 hours in my day work in it. And it would require a lot of programming to do stuff, but if you get pass that it's powerful for both 2d and 3d.

GB Studio - It makes gameboy games. The tool is limited (although I think they added platformer support now). It has no battle system to use so we either have to make a real simple one or have no battles. Since it's gameboy the memory is really limited, the game would have to be short and we have to be mindful that we leave enough space for everyone else to add stuff.

Adventure Game Studio - Never used it. But it makes point and click adventure games.

There is also Unreal and Godot, I haven't used them but I would lump them up with Unity. It's in the same vein and requires programming. And then there is Pixel Game Maker MV, the rpg maker clone of GameMaker. It cost money and I've read mixed things about it.


In the end I think I much rather stay with 2k3 as we are all knowledgeable in it. Having to learn a new engine is really going to add a lot of development time to the project.

Build on a previous chapter/mini game

I really like the spell books in Spring Valley I think it was a fun mix up on the characters skills. Maybe it can be expanded to some sort of system where you can easily switch out skills on character. Find more skills along the adventures that's added to the pool of abilities you can switch out.
Maybe you have a hub area and you go out to adventure so before you leave you have to gear up and equip different skills etc.

Also on my spare time I hacked together a first person dungeon crawling system in 2k3:

It's pretty easy to use and create first person dungeons for it. The only limits is that the first person view has to be the size it is in the gif, and it's a pain in the *** to make all the wall textures. But it's an option if we want to do a Phantasy Star clone or something.


Otherwise I'm pretty much down for anything really. But it would be fun to mix it up. I kinda like concept of episodes instead of chapters. Say we make a game that takes place in a space station. Then each episode is just a day in the space station. They don't directly follow each other, but characters and places from other episodes can show up. The point would be more to make this space station a fun place to explore and hang out in.
It doesn't have to be a space station, could be a town, an inn where just interesting characters shows up in, a castle or whatever.

I also like the idea of revisiting the old Chain Games with a short game collection. But I think we need to put some serious restriction on the games. Otherwise it can probably spiral out of control and take way too long. Making a chapter is already month long process and with those you can just leave it whenever and let the next person take over. But a game you need to have a beginning and an ending and tie everything together. I could probably even go so far as to put a limit on how many maps we are allowed to use.


Another idea we could do is everyone work on a game separately. And then we collect them all in one download and maybe I can code a game select launcher app where you can choose the game in. Kinda like a Charas Freeware/Demo Disc of the past.

[Moosetroop11]

I really like the idea of having one of momeka's genius creations that we can then all edit ourselves and make work. If it's possible to have that first person view above (it looks amazing by the way), for instance, presented in a way that we know how to change the textures and add objects and stuff ourselves, then it'd be very fun to have the whole game like that (or in any other non rpg style like dread the rabbit etc etc).

As for the ideas of how to structure the game I'm against having multiple games in one folder because I don't think people will play them all - the single game concept makes the whole experience less daunting and more interactive. I'm quite into the open world idea, could get behind the campfire idea, and would be very happy with the standard formula too.

[Prpl_Mage]

@Fish

Meant Metroidvania less in terms of platforming gameplay and more in the progression design of it. But yeah, probably better suited for a different tool. So let's skip that.

Open world games like Red Dead Redemption has still managed to create a rather solid story, even if players go off to find missing teddybears or something at times.

Going a different route than experience level is also something I have found to be more appealing now that I have less time and patience for grinding. It also makes it easier to playtest and balance the game when new content is added.

@Momeka

Yeah maybe we should just stick to 2k3 for these ones, as you mention learning new tools would take time from actual content creation.

I do like the world building like the space station idea, but then again I'm a literature nerd who recently read a book, Outpost, which is about a colony establish far away from earth with no more ships appearing for 6 years. They're down on salvaging their equipment and compromise to survive. But then suddenly, a ship appears in orbit without a word. Lots of angles there.

I agree that those last ideas would need pretty clear restrictions and such for them to be viable.


@Moose

Agreed, the crawler looks great and would be fun to use in some way, maybe even make it the better part of the game. That is, if we can all learn to work it without screwing it up.


I'm honestly into doing any of these, but probably leaning more towards the open world or episodic as well. I mean, Heart of Gold worked out fine when we added to the game in the bugfixing round with more content into the world so an open world game shouldn't be too much of a stretch.

[Momeka]

As for the ideas of how to structure the game I'm against having multiple games in one folder because I don't think people will play them all - the single game concept makes the whole experience less daunting and more interactive.

Yeah, I agree. Think it's more of a motivation to finish things up as well if you know that someone else will continue on after you.

If it's possible to have that first person view above (it looks amazing by the way), for instance, presented in a way that we know how to change the textures and add objects and stuff ourselves

I think it should be. The must daunting is probably the textures cause there is a lot of them that needs to be made for single tile. But once you made the art you just need to number and name it correctly and add it to the picture folder. After that you need to create a terrain ID and mark that on a tile in a tileset. Then you just need to place the tile in the map. For the art I think we should try to keep it pretty generic so it's easy to reuse, then we can do some recoloring as well and I think we'll get pretty far.

There is some other mildly annoying stuff with it. Like it doesn't use the actual player, instead it tracks position with variables. So when teleporting to it you need to set the variable location with numbers.

It will also be hard to have interactable stuff in there. We can have treasure chest and static stuff that you can press for a textbox or whatever. But no monsters moving around in the dungeons. I think doors would be hard too, specially if we want to animate them opening and such. We can probably do doors as long as the player can't see them opening. Like I press the button over here and in another corridor something opens.

If we decide to go with it, either I can start the chain game off or I can set up a skeleton project with the 3D stuff in it. Then I can write a getting started guide as well with some instruction and pictures. And if you run into problems just poke me, I'm usually around.

(or in any other non rpg style like dread the rabbit etc etc).

Yeah, I've thinking if I have some unfinished prototype somewhere that could be interesting. But I can't think of any at the moment. I don't think Dread would be doable for a chain game. It was a real pain adding new content to that game.   

I'm honestly into doing any of these, but probably leaning more towards the open world or episodic as well. I mean, Heart of Gold worked out fine when we added to the game in the bugfixing round with more content into the world so an open world game shouldn't be too much of a stretch.

I'd be down for Open World. I had a stupid thought and maybe it's not doable at all. But what if we did one map that is 500x500. Then in a corner we put a city/village that act as the game hub. Or if that would take up too much space on the map we could have like an elevator access point and the hub could be underground. All around the hub is just wilderness and over the course of the game you have to move deeper and deeper into it. The further away from the hub it is the harder the enemies will be.
So the first person does not complete the whole 500x500 map, just do the parts on it required for their chapter. Then the next person fill out the wild with what they need and so on. If there is any gaps left in the end we just fill it out during the bug fixing round.

We could also easily add side dungeons and areas that takes to other parts to explore. But I like the idea of the main part of the game is this huge hostile wilderness map.

[Prpl_Mage]

I'd be down for Open World. I had a stupid thought and maybe it's not doable at all. But what if we did one map that is 500x500. Then in a corner we put a city/village that act as the game hub. Or if that would take up too much space on the map we could have like an elevator access point and the hub could be underground. All around the hub is just wilderness and over the course of the game you have to move deeper and deeper into it. The further away from the hub it is the harder the enemies will be.
So the first person does not complete the whole 500x500 map, just do the parts on it required for their chapter. Then the next person fill out the wild with what they need and so on. If there is any gaps left in the end we just fill it out during the bug fixing round.

We could also easily add side dungeons and areas that takes to other parts to explore. But I like the idea of the main part of the game is this huge hostile wilderness map.

I was thinking more like Zelda or FFXV. Where even though you have freedom the game is still kinda divided into different "areas" where you throw in an invisible loading screen or such. So Hub could be one map, then the outlaying area is one map, and that one has connections to 4 other areas or such. So we each have a 500x500 stretch to work with and then add to the hub and the area around the hub to make a connection to our area and some more content.
But I suppose both can work of course, just thinking about limitations to the chipset and such if we all work in the game map. I remember several old PC games being a single map after all, the dungeons were just down in a corner somewhere that you couldn't reach.

[Momeka]

Yeah, maybe a 500x500 would be too small for a full game area. Cactus Canyon in Hearts was two 75x75 but you can walk through them pretty quickly. So maybe splitting it up to several big maps is the way.

What kind of setting would you guys want to do for the next? I'm a scifi nerd, I love me some clunky looking space ships. But I also thought the Modern setting with just fantasy elements in it was kinda fun. There's stuff we haven't touched yet either like Time Travel, Cyberpunk, Steampunk, And-other-punks, Post Apocalypse (Gaia was kinda that, but we could do one less fantasy based), or maybe some Victorian age exploration in a fantasy world thing.

[Moosetroop11]

Yeah theme wise I'm a big fan of scifi and our Juno chain game definitely caught my imagination. Time travel might be difficult to pull off but could be really fun if we get it right

[Momeka]

Yeah theme wise I'm a big fan of scifi and our Juno chain game definitely caught my imagination.

Yeah, I liked it too. But if we did scifi again I would like it to stand on it's own legs. Not end up as a sequel to Juno.

[Moosetroop11]

Yeah 100%, a sequel would make people feel like they had to play the previous one and put them off.

[Prpl_Mage]

Yeah 100%, a sequel would make people feel like they had to play the previous one and put them off.

Good point, didn't think about that.

So right now we're leaning towards:
Keep using Rpgm2k3
Go with something else than exp leveling
Perhaps using the above mentioned Dungeon crawler if possible
Or more of an open world styled game or at least an episodic approach
Maybe sci fi?

[Moosetroop11]

Yes that's sounding good. So 'episodic' meaning kind of like megaman where you can do all the bits in any order but you get a reward from each part that makes the other parts easier, maybe.

[Momeka]

You want to start it Purple? I don't think you started one yet.

Random idea, instead of having level ups we instead have a "Level Up Shop". Where you can buy stat increases, so you pick characters to level up and maybe it cost different items to level up certain stats. The more you level up a character the more expensive it will be. Would give the player more freedom how they want to build their party. Who should be fighter and mage etc.
Don't think it would be too complicated to set up.

Yes that's sounding good. So 'episodic' meaning kind of like megaman where you can do all the bits in any order but you get a reward from each part that makes the other parts easier, maybe.

It's not what I thought of. But I kinda like it. Would work well with some sort of hub area. And would probably take some planning, like maybe we should figure out the themes and weaknesses before hand. Instead of picking a chapter maybe you pick a theme. Like I want to do the Fire Dungeon etc.


Also I have what might be an unpopular opinion. Could we keep the number of characters down? Like keeping it to only a full party. I really dislike the party switching system and really don't think they are that fun. Like I don't mind having a bunch of npc character around the party that can jump into cutscenes, but not everyone has to be playable. If you guys like it we can keep it, it's just something I never really been that into.