Game difficulty (Probably not what you think)

[Ace of Spades]

Alright, if this needs to be moved, then mods, go ahead and move it. I have a question for everyone. What do you like better: A game that is difficult, or a game that is easy?

Now, before you think that this is the dumbest question, consider what I am asking. Obviously, not many people like a game that is peaches and cream, and can be beaten in 20 minutes. Also, most people don't like a game that is so incredibly hard that you can't get passed the first boss which is actually a tutorial. Anyway, this isn't what I'm asking. By game difficulty, I mean the options inside of the game. I'll give you an example of what I mean.

Chrono Trigger (not because it's my favorite game, but it's good for this question): In Chrono Trigger, the game was straight foward in how to use it. It was easy to handle. There weren't any special things like an Exhaustion Meter, Hunger Meter, Skill Sphere (see next ex.), etc. What I'm trying to get at, was the game was only difficult in a sense of fighting and going through the game.

Final Fantasy X (There's probably a better ex., but oh well): This isn't really a good example, but it has one thing in it that I wanted to ask about. In FFX, there is a Skill Sphere (I think it's called the Sphere Grid). In this, you had to use little AP points (I think, I may be wrong, haven't played it in a while) for each type of skill you would acquire, and then set it to a certain character. If you played it, you know what it is. Now, I personally, disliked this. It got on my nerves, I had to go outta my way just so I can get something like "Speed Up" and it took a long time to read that tutorial. :p

Now, back to the question. Do you like it when a game is difficult in a sense of what the game consists of, such as special menus, skill grids, different meters (exhaustion, hunger, bathroom?, etc.) Or, do you like it when a game is straight foward, and easily understandable, and you don't have to go out of your way for little things? I'm just curious. IMO, I like games like CT, where everything is self explanitory, and you don't have to go out of your way so that you can get a bite of food, that type of thing.

Well, what do you guys think? I know this was long, but I'm really curious as to how you guys like your games.
BTW: Sorry if this has already been asked...

[Snake Eater]

I don't really care. Either one is fine for me

[Tomi]

I like more of a balance between the two.  If a game goes too far either way, its not my favorite type of game.  (Maybe a little towards simple though)

[WarxePB]

I would lean towards systems. Either a single complex system (such as the Sphere Grid), or several simple systems (hunger, fatigue, maybe a small character class system, etc.)

[Ace of Spades]

Wow, what a discussion. XD The reason I choose straight foward, is because I get really annoyed when something like this happens:
You are in a desolate cave, completely away from any save point. You enter a battle, and Oh no! I'm exhausted! The fight is long and boring, the only way to "cure" exhaustion is to sleep, which you can't do in a battle, and you end up dying anyway.

Or, how about something like this: You are away from any type of area that you can get food, your hunger meter is pretty much low, and you haven't saved in a while. You die of starvation. Now THAT would get on my nerves.

[X-F3R]

straight forwards are ok, but what i'm really after in an RPG is the story.

suikoden was straight forward =P yet it was the best RPG i played. there were puzzles from time to time, but they were easy to get around.

ToD had a hunger system, but i did OK.

anyway, thing is, the reason why systems are put in because it's something like a rule. u dont do it correctly, something bad happens.. like Brave Fencer Musashiden.. man.. that aRPG was hard. crazy puzzles that needed skill to continue the story (like that crazy reactor i had trouble with in my first time!). i did have problems when i first played it but on my 2nd time, i did ok. =P and even tho it got my frustration level to it's peak, it felt very worth it in when that problem was fixed. =P

[Razor]

Well, I like the Sphere Grid. That was fun. And all these meters you speak of, I like how it was in San Andreas. But I can't imagine many other games being fun with those meters.

I didn't answer the question.

[Darkfox]

Extra stuff is little needed to make a good game. And somtimes bog down quality, if your going to make a game don't think of fancy systems and such, think of the story, the plot.

[blaze_shinigami]

I get bored with ability systems really quick. such as Final fantasy tactics(both of 'em) and Final Fantasy 5,7,9,10,10-2
 i end up cheating to get them all rather than wandering around all day doing random fights

that's the only down side to me.  
except FF-X that sphere grid took way too much to mess with. I actually played that all the way through without cheating.

[SaiKar]

Any system, ANY SYSTEM, that gets in the way of the fun rather then making the game more fun is bad and should be removed. However, if the system is fun or at least interesting, then it can stay.

Example: hunger system.

Bad system: your characters have to eat every so often, and if they don't they get weaker or die.
Good system: eating has positive benefits, such as curing bad status or healing HP and MP. If you don't eat then you don't die, but the benefits are good enough to make it worth looking into.\

Tales of Symphonia had a whole huge cooking system. You learned recipies as you expored the world. Each recipie required several ingredients: some cheap in stories, some that dropped off enemies, and some rare. Each recipie did something different, with later recipies being generally stronger. Each character had a cooking level (in stars) and could increase their skill and the potency of their meals. After battle (or on the field map) you could hit a button, and if you had all the ingredients, the meal would be made and you would get the benefit.

The best thing about the cooking system was that you could ignore it and heal with inns/magic/normal items. But when I played the game through a second time I paid more attention and found it was pretty cool and useful.

That's the kind of system I want to see in a game.

[DragonBlaze]

I don't like any kind of meters besides hp and mp (limit meter too in some games). Once you start making other types of meters like hunger and such, it just gets dumb, at least for an rpg.

Basically, I think this is a good rule to follow. If its a system that is just a differant way of doing something that is allready in rpgs, its good (learning skills with a skill grid for example). But as soon as you make new things you have to do such as eating every so often, it starts to get annoying.

[Weregnome]

Personally it all depends on the game. Simple games are good. I mean I love a slash em up with simple means, no pressing a million buttons, just like 3 and you can kick ***. I like simple rpgs... if they have a story otherwise no. I like complex, but if there is no interest through characters and story then no. RPGs are all about story. Some of the simple system slash ems, puzzle, fightinh etc don't need to cos they rely on making it fun. RPGS I feel need fun AND interest. I mean, whats the point of playing an rpg that has a fun battle thing, but u get off after evey 30mins cos it isn't interesting u?

[gyrus]

Just because a game is an rpg doesn't mean it has to be plot, random battles, bosses etc. I like games like the urbz for gba for example no fightting but you have to maintain hunger, hygiene, social, energy, comfort, fun and room bars, while playing minigames as jobs to earn money, and completing the goals which form the plot.

[AsakuraHao2004]

I find a sense of pride when find out how to master a system, like the materia system, junction, sphere grid...

MGS 3's hunger system was excellent.