Question

[Almeidaboo]

Originally posted by Warxe_PhoenixBlade
Let's stay on topic, guys. This isn't a "Religion is fake!" thread, it's about being gay. SO STAY ON TOPIC DAMMIT!


My final word on gays: People shoul,d be able to live their own lives, make their own choices, etc. Like Pierre Trudeau said: "The State has no place in the bedrooms of the nation".

Well, we ARE on-topic. Drighton is trying to say that being homossexual is wrong cause it is on the bible and, therefore, God said it.

And we are saying: GOD DIDNīT SAY A DAMN THING CAUSE IF HEīS REALLY GOOD HEīD NEVER WANT ANYONE TO DISLIKE, HATE OR THINK DOWN ON ANYONE FOR WHATEVER REASON IT IS!

There there (as would a old crazy member say under his avatar).

[WarxePB]

Originally posted by Almeidaboo

And we are saying: GOD DIDNīT SAY A DAMN THING CAUSE IF HEīS REALLY GOOD HEīD NEVER WANT ANYONE TO DISLIKE, HATE OR THINK DOWN ON ANYONE FOR WHATEVER REASON IT IS!

Does cold exist?

[Drighton]

Originally posted by Osmose
No, Drighton, it is people like you that bring arguments on morality down the drain. By simply referring to a god you invalidate any logical argument by referring to a higher power, as higher powers inevitably do not need to follow the rules of logic. Not to mention that you impose your own religious beliefs on others by using the assumption that your god is right in order to prove a point.

Yes, I cause major arguments by referring to God. Calling people assholes (or that is what I deciphered from the asterisks in your older post) because of their way of beliefs doesn't anger people at all.

You judge someone and call them an ***hole because they judge someone and call them sinful because that person is a homosexual.

Do you see the hypocrisy in that?

But then, you also judge me as having inferior logic, or as having less substance to my words, because I believe in and refer to a higher power, so you are probably going to assume these statements to be irrelevant anyways.

But let me say this: Who is more the ***hole? The person who tolerates gays but chooses not to associate with them, or the person who beats the **** out of a person to the point of death or near-death because they are gay?

Originally posted by Almeidaboo
Well, we ARE on-topic. Drighton is trying to say that being homossexual is wrong cause it is on the bible and, therefore, God said it.[/B

I'm not trying to say it. I am saying it. I'm not saying that you have to agree with that, nor that everyone in the world should. Its simply a statement of my stance on the matter.

But then, in retrospect, that reply to your post was unnecessary.

However, Warxe is right.
The topic was: Would you disown your son/daughter because they were gay.
Far off from: Is the Bible a book of God or Man?

[Almeidaboo]

Bible says (that GOd says): Love each other.
Church says(and you say God says): exclude the homosexuals, theyīre sinful.

Do you see hypocrisy in that?

The on-topic thing is: people mostly dislike gay ppl cause this idea was planted in their heads by their religions.

Course, itīs not the only factor. Many were NOT WELL EDUCATED.

[MrMister]

Originally posted by Revolution911
They kinda..squirt a bit...o_o..

It depends on the girl.. it's not a good feeling, I can tell you that.

[Drighton]

Originally posted by Almeidaboo
Bible says (that GOd says): Love each other.
Church says(and you say God says): exclude the homosexuals, theyīre sinful.

Do you see hypocrisy in that?

It is written in the Bible quite a few times that homosexuals are sinful. This isn't something that the church is making up. Though, I'm not sure if that was a typo or something.

Technically this should read:

Bible says (that GOd says): Love each other.
Bible says(and you say God says): exclude the homosexuals, theyīre sinful.

Do you see hypocrisy in that?

Now, nowhere does the bible say not to love homosexuals. In fact Jesus encouraged people to be neighborly to each other regardless of our differences, as in his illustration of the Good Samaritan.

The on-topic thing is: people mostly dislike gay ppl cause this idea was planted in their heads by their religions.

Thats hardly on topic. Topic: "Would you dis-own your gay son/daughter?"

You just want to discuss why people who "dislike" gay people because of religion are wrong.

Course, itīs not the only factor. Many were NOT WELL EDUCATED.

I don't follow. What education would change the way people think about the matter?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Homosexuality is nothing new. If the Bible speaks of it, then it was clearly a prevalent activity back then (I think that can be agreed on, despite the arguments of the Bible's turthfulness in it's "stories"). It very well could have been around since before then.

This is an argument that has spanned past our lifetime, I would say at least 3000+ years. Its not going to be resolved in an internet forum.  :p

As time goes on, people's perceptions of things change. But not everyone will accept the new normal. In the future, our grown kids could end up having a similar discussion, equally debatable, when pedophiles start spouting mess like "natural desire" and "passed on by genetics" and simply want to be accepted into society as normal.

At that time, there will be people rooted in their ways who would view pedophiles as criminals. There will also be people who think they should be left alone. "Not all pedophiles are bad." they'll say (of course, referring to those who have consentual relations, not the rapists). Eventually, people won't think anything of a 30 year old guy dating a 9 or 10 year old girl. It would be so common it would be considered normal.

Don't take this as comparing homosexuals to pedophiles, I'm simply comparing the situation. I'm sure that everyone, at this time, can agree that pedophiles are dispicable. I guess what I'm saying here is that everyone will draw the line somewhere.

[Osmose]

Imposing and suggesting are two different things. Think of it. The only way to counter, "The Lord states that homosexuality is wrong." is to say that god is wrong. And it's safe to assume that someone referring to their god isn't going to take that too well.

We cannot just say, "This isn't about religion" because it is in fact very much about religion. Religion is a set of morals to live by. Nearly everyone in the world has a religion, a belief in a higher power, that they believe and abide by. Their interpretation differs in some cases, but they all believe in something. And that in itself starts a bit of an issue. Having a religion isn't wrong (Far form it. Religion is a lifeline to many who wish to validate their existance, and it's done wonders for building morals), but having unchangeable beliefs is wrong. To quote Chris Rock, "I just think it's better to have ideas. You can change an idea. Beliefs, people fight wars over stuff like that."

Relating this to a situation involve pedophiles doesn't work either, because of the nature of the things. The general argument against gays is that "It's wrong." Pedophilia, on the other hand, is looked down upon not only because of simple opinion, but because a child does not generally have the capacity to make a decision to willingly have sexual relations. In addition, it puts them in physical harm because their body had not yet matured fully. While one could say that gays are just as dangerous, with the advent of HIV awareness and such, it has been proved by thousands of gays across the country that protected sex is safe, and is comparable to that between heterosexual partners.

I will admit that I use strong language, but that's because I see no need to hold back my emotions on an issue that is quite personal to me. (My brother is gay, and my entire immediate family, unlike some of our uncles and aunts, was totally accepting of this).

To put my next answer into terms you might understand: He who sins, no matter the magnitude, must redeem himself in the eyes of God. I loath gaybashers, but since I'm in no position or shape to stop any, I can only try and change the intolerant opinion of someone.

[Drighton]

Originally posted by Osmose
So you think you're rightous and tolerative if you say that you respect gays. But at the same time you say you'd stop talking to them if they made a move on you.

Originally posted by Osmose
I loath gaybashers, but since I'm in no position or shape to stop any, I can only try and change the intolerant opinion of someone.

So am I tolerative or intolerant?

Does not toleration imply that you recognize and respect the rights, beliefs or practices of others?

Originally posted by Drighton
...but its not the person I have a problem with, its their choices. I can respect a person for being themselves.

Perhaps the wording is incorrect, but it portrays just the same. I'm not going to stand in the way of someone being gay. BUT, I'm not going to say that homosexuality is okay. Once again, I have no problem with the person, just the lifestyle.


Concerning the example. I recall a court case involving two brothers who killed their father and tried to disguise it as a fire. They then ran to their friend's house, who is a convicted pedophile, and long story short, the younger brother turned out to be gay and having a relationship with this friend (who was about 40). The younger had love letters and all that nice stuff, and even confessed on the stand to it all.

Know one can know for sure if this was truly the boy's feelings or if the man had "brainwashed" him, which was the angle the prosecutors took (this case was a mess. both the King (i think that was their name) brothers and the pedophile were acquitted of the father's murder).

This, coupled with all the teacher-student relationships occuring in the US (we only know of those that are reported by the media) are what I had in mind when I made that analogy. But then, at what age does someone have the "capacity to make a decision to willingly have sexual relations"? 13? 14? 15? 16? Older? Younger?

And, theoretically, this could be something presented in the future with similar debatability. But this is completely off topic, so I'll take it no further.

Just know that not everyone (i.e. Me) who says that a gay person in a sinner in their book, doesn't hate that person.

[Almeidaboo]

So, do you belive your religion 100%? Do you think there is any argument, from wherever it comes, good enough to consider a choice that makes a certain person happy, sinful?

Or you agree that, if it is for the good of some (gay) people, even though the bible said it is wrong, God would be glad to see that, instead of war, people are loving each other?

Plus, when a father smokes, he teaches his kid to smoke. When a father calls a guy a queer and looks down on him, heīs also teaching his son to do so. Thatīs bad education.

[WarxePB]

Bah. None of you answered my question. But it's redundant now, so I won't bother.

Although I must concede that we're having a great discussion about this. If only more people were involved, and you all didn't post so much at a time.

[AsakuraHao2004]

Originally posted by Osmose
We cannot just say, "This isn't about religion" because it is in fact very much about religion. Religion is a set of morals to live by.

Chiristian religion. A so called "free" country based upon the morals of a religion. Pretty self-contradictory of our first amendment, is our first amednment itself. And all thereafter.

[WarxePB]

Our world is based upon religion. The Egyptians, the Greeks, the Romans... all of those civilizations lived based upon religion. And if you spoke out against religion in any of those, you'd probably be hung in an instant. We're lucky to live in such a lenient society in these days.
It is your right to be an atheist, but the First Amendment (or any free-speech law) is not absolute.

And COME ON. If we want to discuss religion, let's make another thread. Homosexuality and religion are interconnected, but these knid of discussions are not related to homosexuality in any way.

[Revolution911]

...If you think im reading all that you're crazy. Someone sum all this up in like... 4 sentences =/

[Spike the Kat]

i think its wrong to hate gays
i think its write to hate what they are doing

many people say "hating gay people is like hating black people" but it is not.

being black is something you are born with
being gay is something you choose.you might have a desire to but still you have a choice. for example i am an angry person but i do it by choice i would love to not be and try but i just can't and in another sense i am black no matter how hard i try i will never be white. you could hate my actions but at the same time love me, ya know.

do you get wut i meen???

[Razor]

Originally posted by GaryCXJk
I've also read that Noah was based on another story with water and such.

Well, it's still impossible for 2 of every creature on the planet (baring in mind this was only set a few thousand years ago or something) to fit into such a small ark. Also, for the water to go above every mountain, the earth's temperature would sky rocket. And then there's the question, where did all that extra water come from and go to?