Carmen and Ghostclown

[DragonBlaze]

Originally posted by SaiKar
Just so you know... the point of this thread is not to "reach a decision." That's my job. You're not voting. You're not a committee or a task force.  You're not here to solve any problems.

Focus on saying what you believe, and debating with people you disagree with, and let the mods worry about judgement and policy later on.

I know this isn't a vote or anything, but I at least hope you will take into consideration the things that were said here. If the staff members at any site don't care about its members' thoughts, then there's something wrong.

If this is the case, then there isn't a point in anyone trying to discuss anything because none of it will even be heard by anyone who matters.

You know, its kinda funny. My favorite forums ever were on a site called ManiC's Zone. One day, the head admin ManiC just vanished, no one heard from him, no one could contact him, he was just gone. Soon after, all the staff members just left too and forgot about the site. Though even without any staff, members still went there and all in all, it was a pretty active forum. Surprisingly enough, nothing ever got out of control, and everyone was able to act mature enough. In the end, we realized we never really needed a staff to 'hold our hand' and watch over every thing we did at the site. Then about a year later, the admin came back, all the staff slowly came back. When the staff came back, a lot of them began acting like big shots just because they were the staff of the site, it didn't matter that they didn't visit the site in over a year, cuz after all, they were the 'staff'. Shortly after, the site fell apart and went down. That was around 3 years ago when I first joined charas.

My point in that was that we are not children, we can handle ourselves. We don't need everything censored for us. We're not going to go kill ourselves if someone does some flaming against us. And though you think  you're protecting us by doing all this, sometimes you go overboard and it does more harm than good.

I can handle flamers, I can handle antagonists, I can handle idiotic noobs, what I really hate though are corrupt staff members, ones that won't listen to their members, ones that proclaim themselves to be "the god of the forum", ones that are power hungry and looking for authority, and ones that treat all the members like children that need constant guidance even though they are no more mature than the members themselves.

[smokey_locs2002]

Bet 50 this topic will be locked.

To those saying "Stop being immature" umm.. nvm.... I wish not to go there today.

TAKES ONE TO KNOW ONE!!

*runs*

[Razor]

Wow Dragonblaze, you're one of the most owniest people on Charas.
You're totally owning this thread.

[smokey_locs2002]

Originally posted by DragonBlaze

quote:

Originally posted by SaiKar Just so you know... the point of this thread is not to "reach a decision." That's my job. You're not voting. You're not a committee or a task force.  You're not here to solve any problems. Focus on saying what you believe, and debating with people you disagree with, and let the mods worry about judgement and policy later on.

I know this isn't a vote or anything, but I at least hope you will take into consideration the things that were said here. If the staff members at any site don't care about its members' thoughts, then there's something wrong.

If this is the case, then there isn't a point in anyone trying to discuss anything because none of it will even be heard by anyone who matters.

You know, its kinda funny. My favorite forums ever were on a site called ManiC's Zone. One day, the head admin ManiC just vanished, no one heard from him, no one could contact him, he was just gone. Soon after, all the staff members just left too and forgot about the site. Though even without any staff, members still went there and all in all, it was a pretty active forum. Surprisingly enough, nothing ever got out of control, and everyone was able to act mature enough. In the end, we realized we never really needed a staff to 'hold our hand' and watch over every thing we did at the site. Then about a year later, the admin came back, all the staff slowly came back. When the staff came back, a lot of them began acting like big shots just because they were the staff of the site, it didn't matter that they didn't visit the site in over a year, cuz after all, they were the 'staff'. Shortly after, the site fell apart and went down. That was around 3 years ago when I first joined charas.

My point in that was that we are not children, we can handle ourselves. We don't need everything censored for us. We're not going to go kill ourselves if someone does some flaming against us. And though you think  you're protecting us by doing all this, sometimes you go overboard and it does more harm than good.

I can handle flamers, I can handle antagonists, I can handle idiotic noobs, what I really hate though are corrupt staff members, ones that won't listen to their members, ones that proclaim themselves to be "the god of the forum", ones that are power hungry and looking for authority, and ones that treat all the members like children that need constant guidance even though they are no more mature than the members themselves.

You're not saying good ol Sexy Saikar is this way, right?

How else could things be handled though? I see your point about the site being left to the common people thing.
Same thing happened to my site when Gunz Online first came out but no one on my site got power greedy (thank god)
We just all got a little pushy because of this big move we did.

.. it just depends on the purpose of the forum I guess. Most RPG forums I have come across have the same issues as Charas besides a few.
I have yet to come across any anime sites with these types of issues. (excluding the inuyasha fan ones)
Nore any porn sites.... I mean .... Gaming sites with Charas problem.
Most site I have come across does have a noob issue..  

[DragonBlaze]

Honestly, I don't believe Saikar is like that. He's the one who kept this thread open and allowed us to take part in this discusion while other staff members wanted to shut it down just because it 'might' hurt them. However, if Sai just opened this topic without the intention of ever listening to anything we said in it, well then I'd be dissapointed. I have a feeling that I won't have to worry about that though.

Now I do believe other staff members at charas are like that from what I have seen and heard from them.

[ZeroKirbyX]

I only have one more thing to say, and that is very well done Carmen. Looking at some of your new posts, you seem to understand where we are coming from with the whole "Help vs unknown lock" thing. Thanks.

[Arcanagirl]

Yeah, Dragonblaze I feel like an underling. I wish I had half the brain to submit effective posts to help out. Your well put together in your posts.. I am so enviess!!! Man I try to make the same point you are making and my brain makes it a mess in a bigger mess...lol.

Dragonblaze you make some very strong points, I totally agree with that field. The last forum I ran I never had to tell them anything, or how to act either. I set the rules and just joined in on the convos with everyone, it was peaceful and nice. Yeah sometimes staff can make things worse by being over protective or just plain out power hungry, thinking they can run the show. I have to say I never had that issue when I ran forums though. Maybe cause I am very strict and mean when I get crossed with corrupt staff. It's called the point of authority!

If an admin or mod is going over board, the owner should be breaking down some walls and letting them know who really is in charge.

Oddly, I have to say I never see Alex on ever. I am on a good every day for most the day and night...Suprising today was the first time I seen him online, but he didnt even post or comment on any threads.

He is most likely overly busy, but does he ever post? or talk with others inside the forums? Can anyone fill me in on this?

Saikar, Robotam, not picking sides, but I know you a lot better then the other admins and mods, if ya ever need help with anything I be happy to help out I like helping.

*Grabs a whip and snaps it at the floor* Want me to whip some shape into bad bad people?

Dont take that too likely, I am making some humor in here. But I am offering help to those who need it. You dont always have to have power on forums to make a difference, and thats the real truth, just like Dragonblaze said. (but in a better way )

Smile everyone, this isnt a thread to cause fights or arguements. its to help the forums and the admins/mods in their work.

Wow think they are wanting our opinion on the behalf of the forums, we all make a difference in this forum, even the noobs to the oldest members.

So, put a smile on your face and lets help Saikar and Robotam by giving our opinions on forum control policies and advise we can give them.

(  Please dont hate me for my rants..I just want to help  )

[smokey_locs2002]

Hmm. Well I have not been around much so tell me this is Alex still a softy?

lol That guy took pity and could put up with anything.

but anyways.  There's a bunch of children on this site and kids will be kids. Some kids do not respect people they just fear them.
(thin line right there)

I'm so glad  I don't have this problem on my site. =D
*Thanks the internet god*

[Kijuki_Magazaki]

Eh, Sai, when I read your post the whole thing on "Charas isn't mine. It's not Carmen's or GhostClowns. It's not really Alex's anymore. It belongs to a community. Take good care of it." went down the drain for me =/

 Please further explain your last post in reference to the other post where the quote is from.

DB, Your point of view is one that is difficult to understand but granted when it is... whatever that might mean.

[Robotam]

 

I'm so glad I don't have this problem on my site. =D

We've got plenty of things to thank Bill for.

I side with you Dragonblaze, you've made the best point I've seen in a very long time.

[Linkizcool]

Agreed.

[GaryCXJk]

Originally posted by drenrin2120
Wow, you guys suck, lemme be the first to say I haven't had a problem with the mods. I basically agree with Mr. Mister, though he could be nicer about it, but w/e. Alot of the reasons, I think, GC and Carmen do this is because they've edited posts and deleted threads so many times, and members keep going back and breaking the rules again. Like flaming n00bs/newbs with or without a good reason it's against the ruels to flame someone. And making random pointless posts/threads, being annoying/sarcastic/aggressive/flaming. That's my opinion.

If you had to keep doing things over and over again to no success, wouldn't you get agitated too? Maybe there methods aren't as "conventional" as you'd like, but how else should they get their points across? It's not completely GC's and Carmen's fault.

That's my opinion.

Basically sums up why I went haywire, but not as bad as Carmen or GhostClown.

However, it does surprise me that shiat happened just at page 6.

To be honnest, none of you are great mods or admins, but then again, are there even great mods or admins? I do have to admit I've seen better moderators in the old days.

However, it does seem that everything was deteriorating after a certain period. I might make a topic out of it (non-flaming, of course, and I would rather have no flames in that topic).

Originally posted by drenrin2120
I could be wrong, but at the time, he could've seen this as a problem between the mods and admins as well as (in a way) sort of humiliating him and Carmen. That's my opinion, this whole thread is a joke and in a way, an attack on GC and Carmen. I side with Mr. Mister, tho I don't usually like him. This time, he's right.

I categorize GC's locking of this topic, perfectly fine. If I was him, I'd see this as more of a private matter. Or maybe it could've just been as simple as Razor said, the posts were now irrelevant. Stop over analyzing things you guys, seriously.

However, you are forgetting that the first half was, in my opinion, a peacefull 'protest'. I believe many agree with that. Or, what DragonBlaze said:

Originally posted by DragonBlaze
To be honest, I don't believe anyone is flaming or doing anything inmature in this topic. Theres nothing wrong with having differant opinions, then debating your own opinions. You can't lose hope in us because we don't all share a uniform opinion, its impossible because everyone is differant. Like I said, what matters here is that we're not yelling at eachother and acting like children in this topic.

And logically, you can't really abuse your powers and yet be justified in doing so. If its justified and has a good reason, then it wouldn't be considered abuse. But in actuality, it doesn't really matter what happened in the past, so I'm willing to forgive and forget and move on.

However, at this point I am disappointed again. A guy like MrMister, who actually is right at some points, can just turn a whole topic in a flamefest. Not because he is flaming, but because everybody is getting on him like hungry rats waiting for a limp rat to come by. And in this case the limp rat is MrMister.

Okay, wrong metaphor.

Anyway, the point of this whole topic is a rule Alex himself has set. It's an unwritten rule, but a rule nontheless. Alex himself stated that a topic should not be deleted unless absolutely neccessary. I believe I added to that that even then you should still lock it.

But, my hopes have turned into a sort of, well, disappointment. Of course there are a lot who still keep the no-flaming policy, but I do feel that nobody is actually listening to each other.

I hope this post will not go by unanswered, because I did spend some time in it.

Oh, and in case you missed my previous post:

Originally posted by GaryCXJk
First of all, kudos to you all for resolving this maturely.

Next, I would also point out that a mod should not delete topics without noting why. Since you can't point out why topics get deleted, it's better to lock a topic with a closing post on why a topic had been locked. This is the policy most forums have.

Deleting topics mostly give the suggestion that this is a sort of dictature, a place where mods can censor everything. This is not right. Editing posts for malicious words is a better sollution.

I hope we, the members, the mod team and the admin team, learn from this, not only about the topic itself, but also the way we now converse.

It's understandable if this post got by unnoticed, mainly because some person forgot to purge the picture, which now stretches page 5...

(>'.')>

[Osmose]

Ugh, can't you people learn how to say what you want to say in a minimal amount of sentences? I'm getting dizzy from all the text.

[GaryCXJk]

It's called waisting your life, Osmose

[SaiKar]

Originally posted by DragonBlaze
However, if Sai just opened this topic without the intention of ever listening to anything we said in it, well then I'd be dissapointed. I have a feeling that I won't have to worry about that though.

The entire POINT of this thread is for the other mods and I to listen to you. I'm reading the whole thing and everyone's comments and seeing how things stand. I've got a pretty good idea so far. I'm just saying that you guys don't have to agree on what needs to be done.

Originally posted by Kijuki_Magazaki
Eh, Sai, when I read your post the whole thing on "Charas isn't mine. It's not Carmen's or GhostClowns. It's not really Alex's anymore. It belongs to a community. Take good care of it." went down the drain for me =/

 Please further explain your last post in reference to the other post where the quote is from.

Sounds like I'm resigning huh? Not quite what I meant. The fact is that the forum is mostly out of my hands. If the average member can police themselves, I don't need to do anything and the whole place will run a whole heck of a lot smother.