Seriously though... what do you think about this

[Ben]

Do you guys think there is money in MMO's?

I mean, Like....

I know WoW and all that must generate some coinage...Somebody is getting rich off of it.  And I imagine a MMO on the scale of say, Maple story, has to be making some sweet coin as well. There is a whole bunch of medicore MMOs out there, many of us have come to be addicted to at some point....And some of them must be making money. Many of the MMOs in the latter category are pretty crappy and generally unorigonal, Visually that is.

If you have ever really gotten into an MMO, let me know what kept you coming back....Was it complicated gameplay? Was it Simple repetative Battling?
Are all Good MMOs ABS? Do the graphics draw you in (thats the one i am all about)
Is it the players? Is it the story? Quests?

Does anyone know anything about how much it costs to host the various  MMOs I mentioned (the mediocre or low level ones? the great ones?)

Have any of you been a part of MMO development? Staff/admin for an MMO?

Would any of you be willing to take part time jobs helping with Dev. of an MMO? Would You volunteer?


Being a fan of amateur game making, Im sure many of you have pondered such things in the past.

Ive honestly given some serious thought to this this last year. Ive been trying to figure out what sort of starting costs I would Have....What my potential best and worst case scenarios would be like.

I am obviously more inclined to the visual design end of things...SO Ive also been thinking of perhaps trying to find/hire somebody who knows a thing or two about programming. When I say Im giving it serious thought, Im not talking like, a project that some community memebers work on...Im thinking of doing some hiring. Taking a professional, and serious approach to this...But to do that, I need to research research research

I guess the point of this thread is just that Im trying to do a bit of Market research for a potential endeavour. Im not recruiting (allthough I may if this is a feasable thing), or announcing a project here, Im just trying to evaluate costs, and get to know what you all look for.

Please discuss what you look for in an MMO. What annoys you about them. What would keep you coming back.

[ZeroKirbyX]

I dunno, I love PSO. Whatever it is I like.

[aboutasoandthis]

I'm pretty sure MMOs make money off of liscencing, like how a TV show will get more money with ratings. They could also offer money for data like how FFXI lets you buy gil.

I don't play MMOs at all. I don't like subscription fees. I might play Guild Wars eventually, but with RPGs, you usually have to spend a lot of time on them.

[DragonBlaze]

Depends on the story and everything, and when you plan to start making this, but I may be able to volenteer with some programming. I really only know Java at the moment, but they're all pretty much work the same, just with differant syntax. I know enough to make a game and all, and I'm learning how to communicate over a network (I'm working on my own Instant Messaging program ) But I wouldn't know how to make a game of this scale, yet. But yeah, possibly if the game interests me, I could pick up whichever language you decide to use and volenteer, but it would have to be a group thing, there is no way I could, or would want to, do most of the programming work.

[Ben]

I am sort of still hashing out the ideas....
I have a marketable graphical concept....
but need to create a solid business plan with this.
Dragonblaze, I may take you up on that.

[emiiru]

I play maple a lot more than I should. And I spend $20 or so on items every month or so, but people buy lots of cashshop items a a regular basis, so I know Nexon makes a mint. An MMO I'd like to see would be a crime thing, were you could be on either side. I don't know how levels/equips would be set up but it has pvp pontential.

i like teaming up with other players lol  right right?

i don't like douches, or  censorship lol

I LOVE LOVE LOVE customization.  if you have something coming out make sure the player can customize his looks a great deal. I'm serious.  

I'll update this as I can think of more...

[Archem]

There's a huge lack of worthwhile MMOs out there, and I'd like that to change one day. A friend and I have had countless conversations about the topic and what makes a good MMO. I've even gone as far as to start writing up an MMO Bible for an MMO idea I've had for the off chance that I get to present my ideas to a commercial company. One day, I hope that I can finally set a precedent for what an MMO should be, and not what all these foreign and domestic companies think MMOs should be.

I have ideas and lots of suggestions; however, I don't wish to totally commit myself to being a part of your project. I would be happy to reply to anything you may ask, if you want an opinion.

[Ben]

Archem, Im going to hit you on msn or a PM at some point and bounce the premise off of you

[Dragonium]

Sounds interesting. A lot of MMOs fail, because they're bad, people aren't interested, or they try to charge for something that isn't worth paying for.

 - In terms of ideas, I'm all in favour of 2D graphics. Good, well-made 2D graphics look awesome in an RPG, and with shading and such they don't look outdated. Certain games attempt to do 3D graphics, but unless they're top-notch quality they end up looking bad. Not to mention that not everyone will be able to download and run high-quality graphic'd games so that'd put a lot of people off. I know I never bother to check out anything with ridiculously detailed graphics.

 - The problem comes when you consider that the games people think of as "good" are the ones that have those 3D graphics. You'd have to find a balance between the two.

 - I also think that having a vast equipment range is important. It really annoys me when in games there's only one path of "good equipment", for example Leather > Copper > Iron > Steel > Plate > Dragonhide or whatever. It ends up with all the top players using the same equipment, and it looks dull. Also, that would completely defeat the object of having cool customisation stuff like emiiru said since every level of player would look the same. Think about it. There should be different options of armour and weapons, which are different but equal, so that people can choose what they want to do and there's some variety.

 - Make unique items. Like, items of which there are only one in existence at any given time. Then people would compete to become to holder of that weapon by trying to take it off one another and it gets passed around as such. It'd sure make the element of competition more fun. If you don't feel like going hunting or mining or selling or such, you can go and try to bag yourself that Blade of Desolation or such by hunting down its current holder.

I'd be all in favour of being a part of this. My coding knowledge is pretty poor, but either on the design or graphics side I may be able to give you a hand. It'd be pretty rockin' to be a part of the production team and be a Legendary Member (or similar wicked-cool in-game title) and such.

I've also had to make business plans before, if you need any not-totally-brilliant-but-still-good insight.

Keep me posted on this, I like the sound of it.

[Ben]

Customizable Items. Check.

So implementing an equipment forging system would be the way to go.

[Prpl_Mage]

A lot of stupid stuff that will keep you away from the levling, it will make the game seem longer as players might have to backtrack in order to get certain materials ect.

(Think the proffs in WoW as an example)
Congratulations Timmy! You are a blacksmith!  Yay and joys.
But what is it Timmy? You can only make about 5 things? But fear not; there is a trainer where you can buy new recipies/plans for new equipment.
What was that Timmy? You bought the plans but you can't make them? Well that's because you need to level your blacksmithing skills first!
What was that? How you ask? Well, you have to make the stuff you can make at the moment in order to get levels!
You can't get more levels from your Short Sword?  Timmy? Well it's a lvl 1 item and your blacksmithing is at 26 so you won't get any levels from those cheap and useless items!

Yeah, way to go Timmy.

Another fun part is where players have to depend on other players wich will create a market. Let's say Timmy here needs a couple of fire gems for his  Blurry Blazing Blade well, the thing is that Timmy can find a couple of fire gems but only at a drop rate in chests(1/500 that it appears) and the drop rate is about 1/1000 that he will find the fire gem inside the chest... What to do? Will Timmy not get his sword?
Well happy world! The magician Marcus is an alchemist and can use charcoal and ethers to make fire gems! But what a hefty price! Well no worries Timmy, you can always depend on your luck otherwise and keep searching those chests while the monsters will penetrate you with a spear!

And yeah, the common "Make an item to make another/reinforce item". Kinda fun if you want to keep the appearence of the items.
Oh yeah, enchantments, kits and those things are also antoher good thing for customization. items that you equip/fuse with your equipment to increase an armour's def or the attack of a sword, maybe even some life steal and water damage.

I'd like to see an MMORPG that isn't like WoW and FFXI, something that is a bit more powerfull, diablo was always fun ya' know? Fighting hordes of monsters instead of wiping whenever two Clefthooves find you....

Yeah, I don't judge game of graphics, 2D would work if it looks good, 3D would look good as well but you better get those camera settings right.

What else? I huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge ammount of classes and classes to make the game more interesting, spell lvls, perhaps some skills that are only useable with a certain sword or shield equiped. Just a lot of stuff to do so the player never grows dull.

[Dragonium]

To add to my opinion, I think there needs to be more diversity in the levels of difficulty in the monsters player face. Of course, at low levels it should be normal - there are monsters like rats and wolves which low-level players can tackle alone. Then you move up through different monster strengths. However at the top end of the scale I think there should be some very powerful enemies that require better organisation.

A case in point would be Dragons. In most MMOs, Dragons are a pretty powerful foe, but a half-decent player can solo a Dragon without too much difficulty. I find this pretty ridiculous. If this thing were real, you would not be able to take on a Dragon alone, no matter how good you are.

Basically I reckon there ought to be some more difficult enemies, different sub-species of Dragons being one, which even the strongest players can't tackle alone. That way, people have to better organise their attacks - players have to form parties and work out a strategy, to take out these powerful enemies in a group without getting beaten down.

It's really just a realism point. No matter how powerful you are, you should never be able to take on these endgame monsters alone.

Something along those lines anyway.

[Ben]

Having an asian lady as a fiancee has its advantages. Because we all know that every asian either knows how to, or knows SOMEBODY who knows how to program. (j/k calm down)

So My uh....cuture cousin in-law happens to work with quite a few programmers it seems.
I am going to be (at the very least) talking to somebody sometime in the future about the work involved in the programming end of it...And quite possibly hire somebody to get on board with this.
Being a tattoo artist, and spare-time graphics designer means I have some bartering material to work with as well. Also: I have no kids....hence....I have money to spend on this.

A list of features Im brewing are as follows



Hoepfully a turn based side view battle system In which one can battle other players, Or AI monsters,

Visually equipped Items

A great range of equipment, that can be modified visually and statistically,

3-6 Main classes, that would evolve into sub classes depending on the alignment of the player
and decisons made throughout the game (ie quests, interactions with NPCs etc)

A forging system for equipment and weapons

top down 2D maps, with a unique (non anime) graphic style to sprites and tiles.



Additional Party Members, Rare and Customized Items and skills would be able to be purchased for money (IRL). Im sort of taking que from gaia online here for this. Their little avatar system has pretty much been the cornerstone of their visual marketing. Maple and Gaia both have a visual style that sells.

I want a marketable visual design here.


The origin of this idea came from the idea of my QuestRPG game
I thought...."Quest MMORPG" on a whim, and have snowballed from there. The style will be cleaned up, and taken into more of a 32 bit style, but Im racking my brains right now trying to make some templates that have the style Im thinking of.

Its right there on the tip of my brain, but I cant quite get it on the screen. It will come, Im sure.





This is all speculative, as Im still hashing out the plans, to get a business plan and premise. I imagine that by the time I consult somebody with experience aspects of this idea will change.

[Almeidaboo]

Ok, I played almost every **** I've seen out there when it comes to MMO. I played from the best (WOW, IMO) and the worse (MU online).

Well, things that got me interested:

WOW: Things that annoyed me in MMO's were completely wiped in WOW. Lag in the cities because of shops all around, for instance. Awesome and balanced gameplay. Sensation of WORLD, like, the game is really HUGE and you travel all around, seeing the views, etc. Customization possibilities, multiple races AND classes. Graphics were awesome too. The BIG BIG PLUS that WOW presented was: the feeling of constant war. The constant presence of an enemy drove me to make friends, team up for a common cause: slash the horde. Yuo see a horde, regardless of the player intention, you can go and start PVP, no asking needed. That sensation is what makes me not me able to play ony other MMO with the same feeling of fullfilment.

Other MMOs were good too. Flyff, although it was grindfest, was really fun, cause it was kinda hard and I really felt compelled to reach lv. 60 and become a Blade. The graphics were nice, and you could Fly, which was awesome too. The problems were lag in the city, grindfest, everyone looked the same and, when you reach lev. 60, takes you about 5 more levels to actually become strong, which made me leave it. I always thought: Ok, now I have two blades and I look cool. I'm gonna kick some @ss...*dies***** WHAT THE ****!*

Rappelz had those great MOVES, the skills were awesome, and se was the character design! The pets lookked cool too. Also, it had many many quests, and you leveled mainly ont he quest, so there was almos no grind, which is cool too. But lag in the city and my Strider nerfage and the lousy drop rate brought it down.

Cabal online has the greatest skill show ever, and the characters look as cool as Rappelz's. It's like, Pow Crash Thud Clobber all around and you're the responsible for it, so yeah, kewl. But it looks like...pointless, somehow.

Ragnarok was the first one I played, and I just got sick of it, with all the private and costumized server around. But I likes the gameplay and the graphics.

There is a new wave coming out that can be put on the same category: Asda Story, Fiesta Online, oOlivc Online, Dream of Mirror and so on, that consists in shell shaded graphics, which is welcome, but they got nothing much to offer, really. Each one presents something different, but nothing really really special. Holic online has something awesome: you can create your own quests! You get what you want and pay the price ^^ Kudos for that.

DOfus would be cooler if the graphics were better and larger. It's a mmorpg that is strategy-like, nice iniciative.

Mabinogi is a promise, cause the plan to do something complete with it. You can select your characters beginning age, and evolve it. As you die, you can be reborn ^^ YOu gotta work and all, and level doesn't really matter, but how good person you are. The fight is also strategy-oriented, but not tactics like.

One I liked a lot was Monato Esprit, which was closed down for reformulation. Cool graphics, cool gameplay and nice moves. Many cool things in there. But it was too glitchy

Things that suck: shops in town, grindfest, pathetic looking skills (as in Flyff...), ugly hitting animation (as in WOW, to tel the truth), awkward characters (as in Hero, MU, etc), lack of options regarding builds/races/classes. Helpless GM, non-user hearing developers, etc...

I'll never be able to play a MMO again knowing hasn't got the WAR sensation I got from WOW...either I have a really good reason to become the strongest, either it's not worth my time. The problem with WOW is, it takes long to upgrade the game, any change you wanna insert takes a lot of time, cause of the complexity of the game.

I lost count of how many mmos I played, but if you got any questions about any game, just ask.

[Snood]

I played Runescape until Java decided to stop working on my computer