After 11 Years...

[Revolution911]

I DONT BEAT GAMES BECAUSE IN ARCADES THERE ARE NO CREDITS, ONLY NEW CHALLENGERS.

[SaiKar]

I miss puzzles like that. I haven't seen anything that tricky, confusing, and luck-based in years. I remember the days of bombing a random rock to find things. Now, I have doors and guide characters telling me how to open said doors. What happened?

Gaming got trendy and lowered itself to the common denominator. Somehow everyone got the sense that they were "entitled" to seeing the entirety of the game and so to make any particular part too difficult was just wrong.

Either that, or we all grew up like ten or fifteeen years or so and puzzles that confused us as children seem effortless to our aged gaming experience. Take your pick.

I DONT BEAT GAMES BECAUSE IN ARCADES THERE ARE NO CREDITS, ONLY NEW CHALLENGERS.

With games, the only beating Rev does is on the souls of his unworthy opponents.

[Archem]

Either that, or we all grew up like ten or fifteeen years or so and puzzles that confused us as children seem effortless to our aged gaming experience. Take your pick.

That's not it at all. I still can't believe I figured out some of the puzzles for older games, even today. Luck and exploration were not only more than "enter cave, check map, follow guide arrow", they were truly rewarding. Remember the Cane of Byrna? Tricky, leap of faith cave entrance, massive trench of spikes, and a rewarding item at the end. Things like that don't exist anymore, and I'm sad.

[Prpl_Mage]

But some old games are just stupid, like that one castelvania game with the tornado.
AVGN pretty much spots most of those games though.

And another game.
Legion: The legend of Excalibur. It's for the PS2, it isn't that special... Like at all. But it just bugs me, about half the game in the game gets so friggin hard since you characters die easily unless you're careful. And I tend to not want to be careful in games where you slap hordes of enemies around.

Dark Cloud 2. I played the demo I got with my PS2, loved the game. It was original.
Then I bought it some time later, got to the port town, and kept losing against that silly boss. I restarted the game some year later and actually took notice of things. Like how pleasing citizens when arranging their buildings gave you nifty rewards. And how the whole weapon levling actually worked.
So I played to the last dungeon place but became distracted by some other games. "Star Ocean till the end of time" for example. Then some year later I got bored with replaying FFX, FFX2 and KH 1&2 so I resumed my file and realized that I was a floor away from the final boss...
I beat his *** and watched the credits. Awesome.

[ZeroKirbyX]

I read September 9th, 1999 and stopped. I really tried to keep reading, but all I could make out was DREAMCAST DREAMCAST DREAMCAST DREAMCAST DREAMCAST DREAMCAST DREAMCAST DREAMCAST DREAMCAST DREAMCAST DREAMCAST DREAMCAST DREAMCAST DREAMCAST DREAMCAST DREAMCAST DREAMCAST DREAMCAST DREAMCAST DREAMCAST DREAMCAST DREAMCAST DREAMCAST DREAMCAST DREAMCAST DREAMCAST DREAMCAST DREAMCAST DREAMCAST DREAMCAST DREAMCAST DREAMCAST DREAMCAST DREAMCAST DREAMCAST DREAMCAST DREAMCAST DREAMCAST DREAMCAST DREAMCAST DREAMCAST DREAMCAST DREAMCAST DREAMCAST DREAMCAST DREAMCAST DREAMCAST DREAMCAST DREAMCAST DREAMCAST DREAMCAST DREAMCAST DREAMCAST DREAMCAST DREAMCAST DREAMCAST DREAMCAST DREAMCAST DREAMCAST DREAMCAST DREAMCAST DREAMCAST DREAMCAST DREAMCAST DREAMCAST DREAMCAST DREAMCAST DREAMCAST DREAMCAST DREAMCAST DREAMCAST DREAMCAST DREAMCAST DREAMCAST DREAMCAST DREAMCAST DREAMCAST DREAMCAST DREAMCAST DREAMCAST DREAMCAST DREAMCAST DREAMCAST DREAMCAST DREAMCAST DREAMCAST DREAMCAST DREAMCAST DREAMCAST

[Archem]

Wait, I typed 9th?

ULTRA-LATE EDIT!!!

[zuhane]

I do agree, Archem. Most new Nintendo games seem to have some squirrel/fairy/star-based side character which
basically removes absolutely any element of thinking for yourself whatsoever.

[Prpl_Mage]

Cannot disagree with the statement of today's games being easier. But it might have something to do with people complaining that they were too hard. Also they want all people to play their games. So it's easy for the beginners.
I wouldn't mind if the next Devil May Cry or Metal Gear Solid completely skipped the tutorial parts and gave you enemies like those you fought in the end of the previous games.
But no, a sequel means that you are taken back to the beginning and have to spend 30% of the game relearning something you already knew.


But... It's kinda nice to have that fairy/ Goombella that hints what you should be looking for if you get madly stuck. Otherwise you'd just read a walkthrough that tells you exactly how to solve it.


EDIT:
Oh yeah, about something Sai mentioned about the puzzles of Septerra Core. The part I liked was that they made this kinda point and click mystery with key items. So for me it was like the curse of Monkey Island but there were fights and stuff.
Use the hook here, use the herbs on the birds.

[Archem]

I don't mind tutorials (especially if they're optional), and I don't mind getting hints to get you going (Bowser's Inside Story had a ticker on your save file that told you what you did last, and what you need to do now), but "hey, push this there, and use this here" is too direct and sucks the fun out of it. What bothers me more is that the puzzles are devolving into "hey, push this there, use this here". What happened to those brain-bending, multi-level puzzles? The pillars in the final dungeon in Link's Awakening is something I haven't seen again in ages. I still have fun, but I really want something that leaves me stumped if I'm not really thinking.

[fruckert]

Dark Cloud 2. I played the demo I got with my PS2, loved the game. It was original.
Then I bought it some time later, got to the port town, and kept losing against that silly boss. I restarted the game some year later and actually took notice of things. Like how pleasing citizens when arranging their buildings gave you nifty rewards. And how the whole weapon levling actually worked.
So I played to the last dungeon place but became distracted by some other games. "Star Ocean till the end of time" for example. Then some year later I got bored with replaying FFX, FFX2 and KH 1&2 so I resumed my file and realized that I was a floor away from the final boss...
I beat his *** and watched the credits. Awesome.

I love you.

[SaiKar]

I don't mind tutorials (especially if they're optional), and I don't mind getting hints to get you going (Bowser's Inside Story had a ticker on your save file that told you what you did last, and what you need to do now), but "hey, push this there, and use this here" is too direct and sucks the fun out of it. What bothers me more is that the puzzles are devolving into "hey, push this there, use this here". What happened to those brain-bending, multi-level puzzles? The pillars in the final dungeon in Link's Awakening is something I haven't seen again in ages. I still have fun, but I really want something that leaves me stumped if I'm not really thinking.

OH MY GOD, with that iron orb you had to carry around everywhere?

Man, Link's Awakening really was the best game ever. I gotta get a gameboy emulator or something.

[Archem]

I have a GBC and an old copy. I'm still in that dungeon, by the way. My third play through. My second copy of the game (first was stolen).

[ZeroKirbyX]

I've got thd DX version, but I really want the original.

[Archem]

Funny, I want the DX version. That extra dungeon is so tempting.

Ah, I can always find a ROM.

[ZeroKirbyX]

The color dungeon is whatev.